Radiator repairman says "metal fatigue"

[Jason Mills]

I just had a conversation with the local fella who repairs radiators, my top tank may be repairable, but suggests that the metal fatigue is due to age, and it may not last so well if the truck is used for anythign other than parade useage..

is he speaking the truth, and I should be considering finding a newer radiator source? Or is it time for me to learn how to repair my own radiator?

[Desoto61]

I've heard it's a problem with old radiators. The condition is real, every time you pressurize the cooling system you stretch the tanks a little, when it cools down they contract, over 63 years of that cycling you can definitely end up with metal fatigue.

For the cost I'd probably be weary, you know he won't back any repairs he's done after telling you that. I'd take the money and either look for a newer take-out in good shape, or look at an aluminum replacement.

[Jason Mills]

Who stocks aluminum replacement radiators??? This fella suggested that he has a place in Maine that may be able to make one.. but it would likely be a fairly impressive bill at the end.

[pwdave]

brass fatigue

I dont know what causes brass to form the small cracks after many years. but I just replaced a carb float that had the fatigue cracks on one side of the float only! the other half looked like new!! I have suspected for years that it has somthing to do with the chemical analisis of the metal as I have seen the exact same fatigue in brass bowls and other trinkets sitting on the shelf for many years.these things have nothing to flex and fatigue them, is it possible that one or more of the metals used, or the ratio of such could play a part in how long a piece of brass lasts? some brass seems to last a long time and some does not, also the thinner it is the shorter the life span. has anyone else noted these things? just a thought. pwdave.

[Desoto61]

I don't think anyone makes one as a standard part. Look in this thread, there are some options, most of the good ones are not going to be cheap.

[Jason Mills]

I don't think anyone makes one as a standard part. Look in this thread, there are some options, most of the good ones are not going to be cheap.

Thanks Desoto, I agree there is some good information on the northern site.
I talked with the repair man this morning, and we are gonna put some patches on the upper tank for the moment, if that lets go, or does not hold up, then I will consider the northern replacement option. Because the top tank is already rather tender, I doubt a recore is much of an option... and all the radiators are probably getting tired to some extent.

[Gordon Maney]

Thanks Desoto, I agree there is some good information on the northern site.
I talked with the repair man this morning, and we are gonna put some patches on the upper tank for the moment, if that lets go, or does not hold up, then I will consider the northern replacement option. Because the top tank is already rather tender, I doubt a recore is much of an option... and all the radiators are probably getting tired to some extent.

There are likely radiators out there that are beat up pretty badly that could yield good tanks, whether it be to repair your current radiator or use with a new core.

[Jason Mills]

I would be interested in keeping everythign original, if the replacent tanks are going to hold up for a few years.. The original that is presently going to be repaired, has a rather nice radiator core in it, and the truck has not been on the road since 1978... yet somehow the tank have started to go..

I asked just that question, could we put a better top tank on that radiator core, and he suggested that he would be more comfortable repairing the present tank, rather than run the risk of damaging the core, in an attempt to replace tanks.. so that will be an option at some point I guess, but it sort of sounds like tanks cannot be swapped to old cores with out some risk of needing to re-core the whole unit.

[Gordon Maney]

We have fewer and fewer capable radiator shops [and, no, that remark is not directed at the shop you are dealing with...], we have fewer of the old time radiator guys.

Brass work hardens. Vibration make it brittle and susceptible to cracking. It is not clear if you have one crack or several.

Ignoring that for a moment.... it was once very common to rod out a radiator. That involved removing both tanks and sliding rods through the core tubes to push out or scrape out the dirt, debris, and corrosion like substance stuck deep in the tubes and resistant to cleaning tanks.

No one talked about risks to removing tanks, it was done very frequently.

Brass can be annealed. Heated to a temperature and allowed to cool slowly. That would remove the work hardening. It just seems to me that your tank could be repaired and do just fine, particularly given what you say about the condition of your core, meaning it is good.

[Jason Mills]

Ok, so I am now understanding that the fella I am using at this moment, does not have enough experience to be able to agree. In fact, the previous owner of this repair shop used to do radiators almost exclusively, and I had the good fortune to be able to work with him 15 years ago. That is a fond memory, as his depth of knwledge was well in excess of the repairs I was asking for.

I believe there is at least one crack on the upper tank, maybe a couple. Yet to my untrained eye, I was thinking that it was in good shape, and the leak was at the joining of the top of the tube and the tank. Never the less, I will be going other places to have any additional repair work done.

[Doc Dave]

Jason,
There is another option to sonsider.
I believe that Charles Talbert uses the old radiator frames and has them recored with aluminum units for the restorations he does. You can probably do a search and find his comments about this. I am pretty sure it was not too long ago he talked of doing this on this site.

[John S]

I just dropped two radiators off at a shop this morning hopefully for repair. The shop is owned by a old school mate of mine. He learned the trade from an old timer then he bought his shop. I trust his opinion.

He has repaired a few radiators for me and re-cored one for my w100. He said re-coring a radiator designed like the Power Wagon can be difficult because of the crimp between the tank and core. The problem is that when the crimp is straightened it can crack making the repair more likely to fail because the joint relies on the solder for strength. He said he would rather repair a radiator like a Power Wagon's than re-core it. I got the feeling it would be a costly job to recore as well.

He also stated that metal fatigue is more difficult to repair than damage to the tank area.

[Gordon Maney]

I just dropped two radiators off at a shop this morning hopefully for repair. The shop is owned by a old school mate of mine. He learned the trade from an old timer then he bought his shop. I trust his opinion.

He has repaired a few radiators for me and re-cored one for my w100. He said re-coring a radiator designed like the Power Wagon can be difficult because of the crimp between the tank and core. The problem is that when the crimp is straightened it can crack making the repair more likely to fail because the joint relies on the solder for strength. He said he would rather repair a radiator like a Power Wagon's than re-core it. I got the feeling it would be a costly job to recore as well.

He also stated that metal fatigue is more difficult to repair than damage to the tank area.

Did he say where on the radiator the metal fatigue was, or would be, present?

[Charles Talbert]

I just dropped two radiators off at a shop this morning hopefully for repair. The shop is owned by a old school mate of mine .He learned the trade from an old timer then he bought his shop. I trust his opinion. He has repaired a few radiators for me and re-cored one for my w100.He said re-coring a radiator designed like the Power Wagon can be difficult because of the crip between the tank and core. The problem is that when the crip is straightened it can crack making the repair more likely to fail because the joint relies on the solder for strength. He said he would rather repair a like a Power Wagon than re-core it. I got the feeling it would be a costly job to re core as well. He also stated that metal fatigue is more difficult the repair than damage to the tank area.

Your guy is telling you right, the crimp is usually the killer. Old, thin, doesn't react well when straightened to remove the tank. Has to be re-crimped when re-attached. New brass, no problem, old brittle brass, near impossible. If it doesn't go wrong from the get go, it won't likely be a long lasting repair. Investment too rich to take a chance I think when it may fail tomorrow.

Bob Fett, COOLED BY ICE in Sarasota, FL builds our new custom all aluminum radiators. We have sent him patterns for both M37 & Civilian PW radiators so he could duplicate. M37 units are near $800 now, the PW's are slightly higher because of the large top tank. Better than any new brass radiator I've seen, we don't even stock brass replacements any longer.

[Gordon Maney]

Your guy is telling you right, the crimp is usually the killer. Old, thin, doesn't react well when straightened to remove the tank. Has to be re-crimped when re-attached. New brass, no problem, old brittle brass, near impossible. If it doesn't go wrong from the get go, it won't likely be a long lasting repair. Investment too rich to take a chance I think when it may fail tomorrow.

Bob Fett, COOLED BY ICE in Sarasota, FL builds our new custom all aluminum radiators. We have sent him patterns for both M37 & Civilian PW radiators so he could duplicate. M37 units are near $800 now, the PW's are slightly higher because of the large top tank. Better than any new brass radiator I've seen, we don't even stock brass replacements any longer.

I believe what you say. It would be interesting to see a tank so affected.