Dually Question

[gmharris]

I have a '63 WM300 that once had dual rear wheels on it. The extended studs are still on the drums. What would I need to do to make it a dually again? Do I need a special set of wheels or can I take two more stock bud wheels and just turn them around and mount them?


Thanks

[Tom Petroff]

Someone who know's will chime in I'm sure.
Seems to me I remember the dual wheel set up had different "off-set" in the wheel.
Also there is an inner and outer wheel nut used.
I'm sure you can't just put two stock wheels on and use one nut, because you will never center in inner wheel.
TGP

[Charles Talbert]

Dual rim configuration

A rim with a different off-set is required to do it right. The fact that your studs are longer doesn't necessarily mean duals were ever used, just that for some reason longer studs were installed. Studs used in a properly done dual set up are no longer than originals. Possibly someone tried doing duals by using some sort of spacer between the rims. Most likely whom ever installed them couldn't find the correct ones, or who knows. Inner lug nuts are required to position the inside rim, outer lug nuts hold the outer rim, typical Budd type lug nuts are used. The correct type is also used on the rear wheels of military 2 1/2 ton trucks, so no problem with sourcing these. We located a correct pair of rims a while back for a civilian power wagon project we have coming up, rare find, perfect like new condition with the selling dealers label still attached, I could hardly believe my eyes. A stock rim can be modified to work in a dual application by removing the rivets, sliding the center disc outward and welding the center back into place. Original rivet holes will need to be plugged and welded. This is a painstaking process that must be done precisely in order to be certain the center is placed and welded into the rim perfectly true so that rim wobble does not result. I was planning on building a fixture to convert some, but that project got on the back burner after I found the rims we needed for the afore mentioned project. Still may do it in time, if demand was there for dual type rims, we could convert some fairly easily after building and perfecting a proper fixture for the job.

[gmharris]

Thanks Charles and Tom for the good information.

It seems that it's not quite as easy as just rounding up an extra set of wheels, and, probably not worth the effort.

I didn't think it would be as easy as sliding on two wheels and using one set of lug nuts, but the studs look long enough that, maybe, two sets of lug nuts could be used. But, that was just kind of eye-balling it. I will have to take a close look the next time I see an old dually Dodge truck. They were probably all done the same way.

I suspect that dual rear wheels were on my truck at sometime as I found an extra set of lug nuts (the regular kind) in a storage compartment in the truck bed. How it was done, or even if it was done correctly or at all, I don't know.

The current bed is not the original and I was speculating that perhaps the duallies were taken off when the bed was changed.

I recently saw a set of lug nuts on ebay that claimed to be Power Wagon dually lug nuts. They were of the cap type in that there was no hole for the bolt to pass through. They were pretty ornate looking too, for lug nuts anyway. They were probably used to secure the outer wheel in some applications, although I don't see why regular-style lug nuts wouldn't work too.

I know that some wheel shops can move the center disk on a wheel to provide more or less offset.

[Steve in NJ]

Dually wheels

Can you post a piture of the wheels??? In the past, I ran a set of daul's on all four wheels. I still have all 4 of the off-set wheels, tires and lugs.

Steve in NJ

[Steve in NJ]

Lugs...

There is a set for sale on Ebay now...2 hours left.

#230449191638

Are these what you have?

Steve in NJ

[iranch]

rare to say the least

Ya, so rare they can be purchased at any truck stop that repairs truck tires, any parts store and a lot of farm supply places. I probably have a hundred around here on the farm.

But, I do believe everything I read on Ebay.

Dennis

[gmharris]

Yep, that's the setup I have on my truck.

I took a better look at the wheels. I can see that the center of the wheels for a dually would have to extend out further than a stock wheel. Based upon what's been said so far, I guess only the outer wheels would have to have this extension and stock wheels could be used for the inner wheels.

Steve, it would be great to see pictures of your dual dually setup. I had thought the dual dually setup was just a joke. However, I can see that with the extended lugs that it would be possible to put dual tires on the front. I certainly wouldn't want to drive it though.

I also think it would be a tough job to move the center disk since the inside diameter of the wheel is not constant. Maybe, you have to flip the disk around to get the extra distance.

[Steve in NJ]

email

You can contact me at:

steveswanres@aol.com

Steve

[gmharris]

Can you post a piture of the wheels??? In the past, I ran a set of daul's on all four wheels. I still have all 4 of the off-set wheels, tires and lugs.

Steve in NJ

Steve, just to make sure, are you saying that each corner of the truck had one standard wheel and one wheel with greater offset? Or, were all eight wheels special purpose dually wheels?

[Steve in NJ]

The 4 on the outside are off-set, the inside ones are regular rims. The inside rims can not be off-set without doing work to the brake drums.

The lugs and nuts can be found at any truck tire shop. Be sure to get the "L" and "R" sides.

Steve

[gmharris]

The 4 on the outside are off-set, the inside ones are regular rims. The inside rims can not be off-set without doing work to the brake drums.

The lugs and nuts can be found at any truck tire shop. Be sure to get the "L" and "R" sides.

Steve

The things you learn here. For a minute, I thought I had some really special lugs on my truck. Here's the ebay auction number for the other type lug nuts I saw. Anybody have any additional information on what they were for? Are they rare? 200447765311

[gmharris]

O.K., Steve helped me out by supplying some information and a photo of his dual dually truck. Here's what I have learned:

It's pretty easy to convert a Power Wagon to dual rear (and even front) tires. The extended lugs and lug nuts are readily available from truck tire shops. The extended lug screws over the regular lug and has a seat which secures a standard wheel. The extended stud is threaded so that a wheel with extra offset can be placed over it. Regular lug nuts are then used to secure the extended wheel.

The only difficult part is finding the wheel with the extra offset.

[gmharris]

More Dually Information

Here's a quote I found on the Texas Power Wagon web site:

"Common to half-ton military Dodges and the POWER WAGON's with lower weight capacity ratings are 7.50 x 16 tires mounted on the 5.5" x 16" rim. In addition to being an inch narrower than the other rim, this rim has other differences. Its bead is shallower. Do not use 9.00 x 16 tires on the 5.5" rims. With this shallow bead, the split ring is not held in place when a 9.00 x 16 military NDT is mounted. There is a chance that the larger tire could roll off the rim in extreme circumstances.

The 5.5" x 16" rim has a greater offset than the 6.5" x 16" rim. The greater offset allows these rims to be used in a dual configuration with 7.50 x 16 tires. Because of the increased offset, these rims may not clear the brake drums when used on some trucks in place of the 6.5" rims. When 9.00 x 16 tire are mounted on these rims, the increased tire width added to the increased offset can result in the front tires rubbing on the frame and suspension components when the steering wheel is turned very far in either direction. And if 9.00 x 16 tires are "dualled" up on the smaller rims, the larger tire size can let the inner sidewalls rub increasing wear and the chance of tire failure"."

So, it appears that dually wheels may just be 5.5" X 16" rims that come standard with a greater offset. Or, maybe the 6.5 inch wide wheels came in two different offsets. Anybody know?


There is more good tire information in Texas Power Wagon article. I suggest reading the whole article if you have not done so already.

http://www.texaspowerwagon.com/Tires.htm