canister oil filter

[olgraybeard]

i have (3) 230ci engines, I've checked (2) of them one had a AC p-115 canister oil filter the other had a AC 122209 canister the only rub is I can't find new ones. both are 5" tall and fit tightly in the stock housing. I see that sock type filters are stock, but I would like to stick with a canister. Does anyone have any good part numbers for a canister type

[tintoptexan]

Hope this info helps. I plaguerized it a long time ago from this forum. Joe

1011 is the correct NAPA replacement sock cartridge for the Deluxe Clean-Oil filter assembly.
International Harvester (sock filter) is No. 70690-H will work, but A Baldwin JC 405 fit very well. I have used both the Baldwin fits best.
Canister Oil Filter - NAPA 1100 "Military Junior" filter element.

[Cheyenne Dave]

The NAPA 1011 filter no longer fits. In fact, any filter marketed by Wix and sold by NAPA or Carquest or any filter that has the 1011 number imbedded within its number is made by the same sub-contractor (Clark Filtration) for Wix, and is no longer made to the original 1011 specs.

I had a lengthy face-to-face meeting with the Wix factory rep last month. They sell under 1,000 1011 units annually and they apparently have no incentive to correct the problem. The IH filter is hardly any better. VPW sells them with the caveat that they don't fit well and must be modified.

I have not yet tried the Baldwin, but will be looking at them next. I have modified my engine to use a spin on-type filter so this doesn't effect me very much, but it does effect my customers. This may be a good time to read the writing on the wall....

C.D.

Hope this info helps. I plaguerized it a long time ago from this forum. Joe

1011 is the correct NAPA replacement sock cartridge for the Deluxe Clean-Oil filter assembly.
International Harvester (sock filter) is No. 70690-H will work, but A Baldwin JC 405 fit very well. I have used both the Baldwin fits best.
Canister Oil Filter - NAPA 1100 "Military Junior" filter element.

[Clint Dixon]

The NAPA 1011 filter no longer fits. In fact, any filter marketed by Wix and sold by NAPA or Carquest or any filter that has the 1011 number imbedded within its number is made by the same sub-contractor (Clark Filtration) for Wix, and is no longer made to the original 1011 specs.

I had a lengthy face-to-face meeting with the Wix factory rep last month. They sell under 1,000 1011 units annually and they apparently have no incentive to correct the problem. The IH filter is hardly any better. VPW sells them with the caviot that they don't fit well and must be modified.

I have not yet tried the Baldwin, but will be looking at them next. I have modified my engine to use a spin on-type filter so this doesn't effect me very much, but it does effect my customers. This may be a good time to read the writing on the wall....

C.D.

Hey Dave, hope your get over your computer problems quickly.

Actually, I was told by my NAPA guy who looked into the problem, the Wix filters are actually made by three different vendors.

The few 1011 filters I have bought over the past few years were indeed larger than the old ones from several years back. I find that the new ones still fit, it just takes more that one hand to insert one now. The new ones definitely require two hands to get the filter in the housing, and maybe a little coaxing with a wooden screwdriver handle sometimes.

I changed oil in both of my trucks last weekend. I had picked up two new NAPA 1011 filters. I compared them side by side, and they appeared identical in size except that one had a flat top and the other had a domed top. The one with the flat top had a very long handle wire for pulling out the old filter. You could grab it with two hands. The one with the domed top had a very short handle wire. It would be tough to get two fingers into the handle.

The flat top filter fit tight as I have become accustom to over the past several years. The domed one about fell in on its own, reminicent of years prior.

Here is the interesting part. The tight one with the flat top was made by a vendor in the U.S.A. The domed one, that fit nice like the old ones, was made by a vendor in Mexico.

There was some lengthy discussion on this topic on the internet last year. I believe the consensus was to use a filter make by Baldwin - JC405.

[olgraybeard]

I went to our local industrial filter business and found that a Baldwin C-53-MJ fits great in a 1950 b2 PW stock housing and I'm guessing all the other years, it is a canister by pass filter, not a sock type. Plus it is not as messy to change they cross referenced the AC filters that were in my engines that I couldn't find.

[gmharris]

I went to the local NAPA to get a 1011 filter which I had used before. The parts guy said the closest 1011 filter was located in Arizona (I live in Southern California) and I would have to pay shipping. I guess NAPA will not be stocking 1011 filters much longer.

Really doesn't make much difference. I don't like them (the filters) anyway. Instead of being solid, they have an approx. 1 1/2 inch hole up the center.

The way I figure it, the oil just passes through the hole and bypasses most of the filter material.

I got a filter from Vintage Power Wagon. I had to peel the sock back and remove a layer of filter material to make it fit. It wasn't very hard to do so I didn't mind. However, I still had to force the filter into the housing which was a pain. The guy at Vintage Power Wagon said they were working with the supplier to get a filter which wouldn't have to be modified.

At least this filter did not have the center hole and, I figure, provides more filtration.

The filter I recently removed from a '48 Power Wagon had been in it for at least 15 years, but probably more like 20. It was a sock-type filter with a thin metal plate and a center seal at the bottom and a wire bail at the top. The seal fit tightly around the center tube of the filter housing. No large hole up the center. It looked like it was the right filter for the application. There was no filter number that I could see. I guess these filters are long gone.

[Clint Dixon]

I went to the local NAPA to get a 1011 filter which I had used before. The parts guy said the closest 1011 filter was located in Arizona (I live in Southern California) and I would have to pay shipping. I guess NAPA will not be stocking 1011 filters much longer.

Really doesn't make much difference. I don't like them (the filters) anyway. Instead of being solid, they have an approx. 1 1/2 inch hole up the center.

The way I figure it, the oil just passes through the hole and bypasses most of the filter material.

I got a filter from Vintage Power Wagon. I had to peel the sock back and remove a layer of filter material to make it fit. It wasn't very hard to do so I didn't mind. However, I still had to force the filter into the housing which was a pain. The guy at Vintage Power Wagon said they were working with the supplier to get a filter which wouldn't have to be modified.

At least this filter did not have the center hole and, I figure, provides more filtration.

The filter I recently removed from a '48 Power Wagon had been in it for at least 15 years, but probably more like 20. It was a sock-type filter with a thin metal plate and a center seal at the bottom and a wire bail at the top. The seal fit tightly around the center tube of the filter housing. No large hole up the center. It looked like it was the right filter for the application. There was no filter number that I could see. I guess these filters are long gone.

It sounds like your '48 had the wrong filter element in it for many years. The sock type, as used on the civilian Power-Wagons, is susposed to have a hole up the center.

The way it works, is that dirty oil enters from the bottom of the housing and fills the tapered hole or cavity in the center of the filter. Only the top of the filter element seals to the center stem or tube of the housing. The old sock elements used a rubber grommet to seal to the stem at the top. Newer ones use folds of the filter element and compression from the domed strainer attached to the underside of the housing lid.

Once dirty oil fills the cavity in the center of the sock element, it passes through the element, gets filtered, and passes on upward to the top of the housing and out the return line near the top and back to the engine. If the filter element becomes plugged with impurities, there is a provision built into the housing cap that allows the oil flow to bypass the element. This is in the form of a check valve and spring in the cap. If oil can not pass through the element, pressure allows it to flow straight up the center tube and overcome the pressure of the spring and flow out the top return line back to the engine.

The hole in the center of the element is tapered, or wider at the bottom, to make room for all of the sediment to fall. The top is tight to the tube so that oil can not bypass at that point. The outside of the element fits tight inside the bore of the housing so that no oil can bypass around the sides. The domed strainer under the lid keeps the sock element under compression, tight to the tube and tight to the housing bore.

The canister type filter fits with a lot of clearance to the housing bore, but tight to the center tube. This is because in this type of system, the oil enters from the oil like near the top of the housing and exits at the bottom of the housing. Sediment gets contained on the outside of the canister between it and the housing bore.

[Clint Dixon]

More information found after searching the forums

Here is some information on Paul's wonderfully infomative site:

http://www.texaspowerwagon.com/oil_filter_debate.htm

Here is another thread that exists within these forums:

http://www.powerwagonadvertiser.com/...ight=napa+1011

Here is an even older thread:

http://www.powerwagonadvertiser.com/...ight=napa+1011

[gmharris]

It sounds like your '48 had the wrong filter element in it for many years. The sock type, as used on the civilian Power-Wagons, is susposed to have a hole up the center.

The way it works, is that dirty oil enters from the bottom of the housing and fills the tapered hole or cavity in the center of the filter. Only the top of the filter element seals to the center stem or tube of the housing. The old sock elements used a rubber grommet to seal to the stem at the top. Newer ones use folds of the filter element and compression from the domed strainer attached to the underside of the housing lid.

Once dirty oil fills the cavity in the center of the sock element, it passes through the element, gets filtered, and passes on upward to the top of the housing and out the return line near the top and back to the engine. If the filter element becomes plugged with impurities, there is a provision built into the housing cap that allows the oil flow to bypass the element. This is in the form of a check valve and spring in the cap. If oil can not pass through the element, pressure allows it to flow straight up the center tube and overcome the pressure of the spring and flow out the top return line back to the engine.

The hole in the center of the element is tapered, or wider at the bottom, to make room for all of the sediment to fall. The top is tight to the tube so that oil can not bypass at that point. The outside of the element fits tight inside the bore of the housing so that no oil can bypass around the sides. The domed strainer under the lid keeps the sock element under compression, tight to the tube and tight to the housing bore.

The canister type filter fits with a lot of clearance to the housing bore, but tight to the center tube. This is because in this type of system, the oil enters from the oil like near the top of the housing and exits at the bottom of the housing. Sediment gets contained on the outside of the canister between it and the housing bore.

Yes, I have seen your writings on the workings of this particular oil filter. I certainly can't argue with your greater experience on Power Wagons, but I have a little experience with things mechanical too, and I'm just not ready to buy your theory yet. You may be right. But, in that case, Vintage Power Wagons is sending out the wrong filter.

I really appreciate all the work you have done documenting Power Wagons. You, and people like you (e.g. Texas Power Wagons), are making a far greater contribution to the hobby than I will ever make.

However, regarding the oil filter thing, I'm still open to more information. The theory that Dodge designed a filter with a large hole through the center (drastically reducing the effective filtration area) so that sediment could fall out the bottom, is unconvincing. The bottom of the filter canister shows no indication that it was designed for this type of filter.

With a large hole up the center of the filter, the only part of the filter that is effectively filtering is the top portion. Right? Or did I miss something? Why would Dodge build a filter where only a fraction of the filter is actually involved in filtering? Even a filter without a large hole would allow sediment to drop back down into the canister bottom as evidenced by the sediment buildup under the filter that I removed.

As I said, you may be right. But, is there any source which supports your theory?

[MontanaWDX]

Oil filter '47 WDX

My '47 WDX has the type of filter Mr Dixon is describing. The first time I took it apart, I could not figure out how it worked or how to remove the old filter sock element.

Mr Dixon correctly describes the way the filter works.

The previous owner of my truck had not changed the oil or filter in a very long time. It was very difficult to pry out the old filter and it was full of gray-brown sludge. The same type of sludge I had to clean out of the oil pan.

I ordered a new filter from VPW and tried to install it. NO WAY it was going in! Way too big for the small filter canister.

Since this is my first experience with these trucks, I figured that I had best place the filter on the work bench, drink a cup of coffee and think about it awhile.

Lucky we live on a ranch and have to make do with what's on hand, so here's what I came up with.

Went to the barn and got 6 feet of plastic baler twine. I knotted one end and cleaned it up.

Starting with the knotted end of the twine, I started wrapping the filter "sock" with the twine, very tightly, from the bottom up, without crossing the twine, until I had spiraled the twine up all the way to the top of the filter.

Next, (without letting go of the twine!) I opened up the hole through sock just enough so the inlet tube of the filter housing would fit through. You might have to arrange the filter pull wire also.

The filter fit right in easily and once in place I pulled on the twine until it was completely removed. (That's what the knot was for!)

Top sieve back on, cap with a new gasket in place and the top screwed on, 5 qts of Royal Purple and some more for the filter can and I was back in business.

Next time I bale our hay crop, I'll look at that baling twine differently.

[Clint Dixon]

.... The theory that Dodge designed a filter with a large hole through the center (drastically reducing the effective filtration area) so that sediment could fall out the bottom, is unconvincing. The bottom of the filter canister shows no indication that it was designed for this type of filter....is there any source which supports your theory?

Dodge did not design the filters. DeLuxe, Purolator, and other filter companies designed the filter systems used on these trucks.

Attached here is an image that has been posted on internet forums many times over the past several years as this topic continues to come up. I think it is one of the best I have seen that illustrates the original design intent of the DeLuxe Clean Oil system. I would like to give the rightful owner credit, but I do not recall actually who it belongs to. I had to do a little searching of the internet to find it.

Thanks for the kind words on my writings. I am no different than anyone else here, still learning all the time.

[Clint Dixon]

My '47 WDX has the type of filter Mr Dixon is describing. The first time I took it apart, I could not figure out how it worked or how to remove the old filter sock element.

Mr Dixon correctly describes the way the filter works.

The previous owner of my truck had not changed the oil or filter in a very long time. It was very difficult to pry out the old filter and it was full of gray-brown sludge. The same type of sludge I had to clean out of the oil pan.

I ordered a new filter from VPW and tried to install it. NO WAY it was going in! Way too big for the small filter canister.

Since this is my first experience with these trucks, I figured that I had best place the filter on the work bench, drink a cup of coffee and think about it awhile.

Lucky we live on a ranch and have to make do with what's on hand, so here's what I came up with.

Went to the barn and got 6 feet of plastic baler twine. I knotted one end and cleaned it up.

Starting with the knotted end of the twine, I started wrapping the filter "sock" with the twine, very tightly, from the bottom up, without crossing the twine, until I had spiraled the twine up all the way to the top of the filter.

Next, (without letting go of the twine!) I opened up the hole through sock just enough so the inlet tube of the filter housing would fit through. You might have to arrange the filter pull wire also.

The filter fit right in easily and once in place I pulled on the twine until it was completely removed. (That's what the knot was for!)

Top sieve back on, cap with a new gasket in place and the top screwed on, 5 qts of Royal Purple and some more for the filter can and I was back in business.

Next time I bale our hay crop, I'll look at that baling twine differently.

That is one of the best home grown fixes that I have heard of in a looong time. I wish I had waited to perform my annual oil change until after I had seen your post. I will definitely try your twine trick next year if the filters are still found to be oversized.

Thanks!

[Kevin Mienke]

Thanks for the kind words on my writings. I am no different than anyone else here, still learning all the time.

It's humble of you to say that, but I disagree. There are only a handful of people around who have the extensive knowledge that you do.

If I remember correctly, you have owned, operated, and maintained Power Wagons since the late 70's. I suspect there are only a few who have 3 decades of experience.

And there are only a couple who understand that the fenders aren't flat :-)

[gmharris]

Thanks Clint for posting that picture. It certainly shows the intent of the original design. I thought I had seen most information on the internet regarding the filter in question, but I missed that one.

However, the pertinent question is whether the NAPA 1011 is the most suitable currently available filter for the Power Wagon. I am at a disadvantage in that I don't have a 1011 in hand to look at until I change filters again.

It seems to me the NAPA 1011 is at best a poor attempt to reproduce the filter element shown in the picture you provided. The 1011 is far from the sophisticated design of the original filter.

As I remember, the NAPA 1011 has a pretty much constant 1 1/4" or so diameter hole extending most of the way through the filter, not the reinforced funnel shape of the original design with the greatest area at the bottom. The top part of the funnel doesn't even appear to be perforated forcing the oil to enter the filter media at the bottom of the filter.

In the NAPA 1011, won't the oil will simply take the shortest route at the top and bypass most of the filter media? If that is the case, it seems that a sock filter without the hole, as supplied by Vintage Power Wagon may be the best solution.

Now that I have seen the picture you provided, I have a better understanding of the workings of the oil filter. It also explains why the oil filter housing doesn't appear to be designed to work with the 1011 filter. It wasn't. The original filter element had a hard bottom, not the soft bottom of the 1011.

Thanks for the discussion. After reviewing this information, I think either type of filter will work, but neither is optimal. In that NAPA seems to have limited availability of the 1011, we may have no choice anyway.

[Paul Cook]

Two!

When you use the word "filter", you must add the noun that the adjective "filter" modifies. There are two types of "filter CANISTER" and each filter CANISTER requires a different "filter ELEMENT". I use the word, “CANISTER” to describe the exterior housing into which the “ELEMENT” is inserted.

Moreover, each type of "filter CANISTER" is plumbed into the oil galleys differently so that the oil in one type CANISTER flows in the opposite direction from the oil in the other type CANISTER.

Discussions on this subject have revealed that the primary current producer of these filter ELEMENTS, WIX, is aware of dimensional differences that has resulted in confusion of part numbers.

It is gratifying to see that some of you have implicit faith in the system and will use a BIGGER HAMMER to make any ELEMENT from a supplier fit the particular CANISTER in your truck. My experience with suppliers has not left me with that much confidence.