46 Power Wagon Restoration pt. 2

[Desoto61]

Ironically the transfer case ends aren't the problem. The conversion yoke allows you to go from the Detroit 5380 to the Spicer 1410 (which actually has smaller end caps with outside locks vice the Detroit's inside clips, but the width is about the same). The problem they have is the small side that attaches to the differentials (Detroit 5160). They have the same big 1.232" end caps as the 5380, but are only 2.5" wide (vs 3.5" wide). Nothing converts to them that I can find, and the shop doesn't have any way of mounting those shafts in their machine to balance or weld up.

They looked at using a new t-case end for the driveshaft but the spline size and count doesn't mate up with anything that would come with a 1410 series joint in it, and they can't weld something up because they can't mount the shaft in their machine. They were going to talk to another shop that does their shafts in a big lathe. They can't balance, but could potentially weld on a new end.

They can get a Detroit fixture but there's nothing in it for them to do so for one job. They have a fixture that is about the right width but the end cap diameter is 1.125". I need to look and see if I can get a set of end caps turned down to the smaller size for build/balance, then just swap them for the stock caps for installation.

[Desoto61]

Think I managed to fix the leak from the power steering box. Turns out the AGR boxes don't use a traditional seal setup. They use a machined sleeve with a needle bearing and o-ring. The o-ring had a tear in it, swapped in a new one and so far so good. The plus side was I could actually get the box out with the engine in place, it's a little tricky but not too bad.

Worked on running the vent ducts through the dash to the dash and defroster ducts. Had to put the mock up radio in place to make sure they were all routed correctly. They take up a lot of space but can be squeezed into tighter spaces, especially behind the glove box. We'll see how that holds up. Zip ties secure the ends in place.

Then I could install the glove box. Installed riv-nuts through the top mounting holes, some #8 fasteners hold it in while I get the bottom set up. Ended up using another of the magnets as a handle to remove the side panel. Works pretty well and the access is decent thought the duct on that side blocks access from below, but it's not too hard to remove and re-install the duct.

I also added some LED strip lights to the underside of the glove box and steering column support and tied them into the dome lights for some down lighting in the foot wells. Also need to rig up some sort of switch for a glove-box light.

[Desoto61]

Last big task for the weekend was to clean out the cab and install the seat base. I also used some of the LED light strips across the bottom of the frame tied to the parking lights, it will provide some interior lighting at night. Then I could bolt it in place and set the driver's seat in place again for the first time in a while.

Felt good to be able to sit in the seat and actually start the truck up for the first time ever! It's a long climb up without the running boards though. Seats may still need to be lowered a little, but I think I'll wait till I actually drive it to see, to drop them any lower would require some more significant modifications to the seat base. The second picture would be just about right I think, as it is I'm probably another inch or two higher.

[defdes]

Seats may still need to be lowered a little, but I think I'll wait till I actually drive it to see, to drop them any lower would require some more significant modifications to the seat base. The second picture would be just about right I think, as it is I'm probably another inch or two higher.

I am in the same boat, I thought I had my seat position dialed in, but after driving it for a couple of months realize it needs to be about 1-2" lower.
Looking real good there, you must be getting (gotten) excited.

[Desoto61]

I ended up ordering a replacement yoke for my transfer case. Apparently the one I had is for the earlier trucks that used the larger 5380 yoke as an output, vs the smaller 5160. VPW sent me a practically new WC yoke that has the smaller U-joint size. After cleaning it up and painting it I could install it, and then realize the bolts were installed backwards and wouldn't let the u-joint lock bolts fit and had to reverse them all.

That only left the front intermediate shaft. The shop was trying to save the splined end of the original shaft but there was no 1350 sized female end that matched the spline size of the original shaft. So he ended up ordering a whole new shaft. Good news is it's bigger around and should be stronger, but those splined ends are not cheap. To go to the larger 5380 series U-joint I used one of the conversion joints I bought to go from a 1410 series Spicer to the Detroit 5380. In the end the shaft collapses to about 6 1/8" and expands to a little over 6 3/4", which was just long enough to fit.

I am always amused at the military nature of some of these parts. The 1350 yoke is beefy, but held on by four bolts (and a little red locklight), while the Detroit end uses those keyed covers with through bolts and lock tab washers, to which I added top-lock nuts for some extra insurance.

I tested that setup just to see that it moved, and then with the engine to make sure nothing horrible happened, and all seems fine with it. Then I could install at least the rear driveshaft and see how that all worked, that meant getting the truck up in the air, which is handy when you have a lift, though the narrow nature of the frame still make it a little wobbly.

Accidentally started in third which was a little rough, but got it into first and all seemed to go OK. Ironicaly I didn't notice the other tire wasn't turning as much till I watched that video, as the tire on the driver's side was moving well.

I still need to figure out the clutch, it works but is way too stiff for regular use. I need to see if I can maybe adapt the Chevy master for that transmission to the Ugly Truckling peddle kit or if there is a smaller bore master with the older bolt pattern. Also need to build a shift lever since the stock one points at my knee with the trans tilted like it is.

Today I worked on installing the hood. Not too bad, but I am going to have to play with the fitment some more. Right now it looks like the radiator has to go higher, which would mean re-re-working the mounting bolts and building a few more spacers, but I'll play with it later.

[wayneh]

Good luck on the hood.... I guess I'm not much of a sheet metal guy because mine still fits quite poorly. If you get it figured out, please let me know and maybe I can learn from you!

Wayne

[Greg Coffin]

I am always amused at the military nature of some of these parts. The 1350 yoke is beefy, but held on by four bolts (and a little red locklight), while the Detroit end uses those keyed covers with through bolts and lock tab washers, to which I added top-lock nuts for some extra insurance

I also have a hard time trusting those strap retainers, the bolts just seem so weeny. I much prefer the original style slide-on straps. Red Locktite is a good idea, but I almost want to tack weld the bolts in place.

[Desoto61]

I also have a hard time trusting those strap retainers, the bolts just seem so weeny. I much prefer the original style slide-on straps. Red Locktite is a good idea, but I almost want to tack weld the bolts in place.

The 1350 yoke on the transmission has big ears that come up way past centerline of the u-joint caps, so there's plenty of strength there, so I get that the strap only really holds the cap into the yoke, but I've lost a u-joint over bolts like that.

I'm not honestly sure if the Detroit ends are any stronger as the sides are thinner even with the slide-on cover, and then the through hole in the base of the tower which also introduces some weakness, but the through bolt in double shear with the tabbed lock washers pretty much ensures that bolt is never coming loose!

Only downside is the factory bolts have a very long shank and just enough threads for the nut, while an aftermarket bolt will be generic and have longer threaded portion, which is not quite as strong, but probably not a major issue with some grade 8 bolts.

[Greg Coffin]

I agree that the Detroit pedestals are probably not as strong as the Spicer, but overall it think the Detroit is a better design. The bolts in the Spicer are the weak link in the setup. They are directly stressed by the u-joint strap, and the ones on my NP435 look like they are 5/16" at best. The keys on the Detroit straps take most of the stress from the u-joint, the bolt simply keeps the strap from sliding sideways, and there's only a little tensile effort necessary to keep the strap from spreading. Overall I think it's a much better design, but it was more expensive to manufacture which is probably why they stopped making it.

[Alxj64]

Hey bud, quick question about the AGR box... You said that yours didn't use the normal fitting? I pulled the weird adapter fittings out of my hydroboost 18mm-1.5 and 16mm - 1.5 with the funky flared O-ring seat and they threaded into the top of my box (supposed to be a factory replacement for a late '80s Chevy 3/4 ton truck). Is your box a little different? Reason I ask is I am laying out my hose routing for my coolers and don't want to end up with a mess. Also I am guessing that the small line is pressure into the box and the larger line is the pressure out? That way I don't hook mine up backwards too. Lastly, what did you end up using for a reservoir? My PS pump is on my rear-geartrain so right below the firewall so I am going to be playing a strange game of fitting the hydroboost, PS reservoir, and steering column all through that one spot. Turns out one more benefit of slightly offsetting my engine to the passenger's side.

First time I saw the engine running video. Stoked for ya man! Big time!

[cartridge]

AGR box

Heh ALXj64 I think you mis-sent me mail that you didn't want to. I'm not the guy you want to talk to about your project. Good Luck

[Alxj64]

Heh ALXj64 I think you mis-sent me mail that you didn't want to. I'm not the guy you want to talk to about your project. Good Luck

Welcome to the forum Cartridge; you posted elsewhere in this thread, therefore you recieved an email notification about my post above. I did not message you directly but rather you were included in the conversation as you had contributed elsewhere previously. There is a setting in which you can turn off those email notifications.

[Desoto61]

I'll have to go dig for specifics when I get home, the pressure in and out lines on the booster were metric, and I found adapters to go from those to AN fittings for the Aeroquip hose I used. The one I had trouble with was the return port for the booster. I wanted to put an elbow in as mine pointed right at the motor, but I couldn't easily find one with the metric o-ring style fitting. I'm sure it exists but I wasn't even sure what it was to order the right one.

The power steering box I also need to check but I don't think they were metric on mine, but it's the Dodge reverse rotation box since I'm using the stock steering linkage. The reason I goofed them up is that again I ran all braided stainless -6 AN power steering line, so while the adapters in the ports are different sizes they both reduce to -6 AN, making it easier to get them wrong. I didn't really need the pressure line for the return from the box except like you I am running a power steering cooler so since I had a whole role of the line I used it to run from the steering box to the cooler and then converted to low pressure line coming out to the return.

As for the reservoir I used the bread-van one from the donor truck, the seller left it attached to the pump and I was able to easily modify the bracket and find a good spot for it off the side of the brake booster. It was already set up for hydroboost as it has a return line on the reservoir for the hydroboost and a dipstick, plus a screen in the bottom for some protection from debris. Then the pump has the line for the remote reservoir and it's own return line, which I used for the return from the power steering box. I would have had a hard time building something as nice and the price was right!

I should have the gear shift lever back by Friday (I'm hoping) and should be able to actually pull the truck out of the garage under it's own power! Will probably strap the battery down to the frame temporarily and go for a less than legal drive around the block if everything goes well. Then I can start on the bed and rest of the sheet metal.

Shoot me an e-mail if you want any part numbers and I'll dig them up for you. Keep the pictures coming!

[Desoto61]

With the hood locked down as close as I was going to get it I moved on to some other under hood tasks. I wanted some under hood light so I used some of the LED strip lighting and some door pin switches (one for each side) to build some lights. I used trim adhesive to hold them on, so we'll see how well that holds up, but not sure how I could do anything mechanical. The pin switches are on little brackets bolted to the firewall. I installed them in the inner fender wells as I figured with the way the hood tilts it would just end up pointing at you vice the engine. I pulled power from the panel on the firewall with a small fuse holder.

The tilt of the transmission causes the stock straight shift lever to point at your leg, so I needed to build a new one. I don't have the ability to bend tubing, so I got some 1/4" round stock and a nut that matches the trans shift tower and a bolt that fit the shift knob. I tack welded the rod to the nut and then threaded it in place. The round stock is just stiff enough I could carefully shift gears but light enough I could tweak it by hand. I laid out the initial shape in the vice and fine tuned it in the truck.

I did run into one problem, the dog-leg needed to get the shifter into a useable position made it too big to thread on in one piece. So I ended up having to cut the bar and thread each end using a threaded fitting to join them so I could install the bottom dog-leg and then screw on the straight extension with the shift knob. Once I was happy with the shape and position I took it to a local metal fabricator to get a piece of tubing bent and threaded.

I had plans to install a windshield washer reservoir on the inner fender where the battery bump is, but it's on back order, so I decided to go ahead and install the fenders. It took about half the day to install each side. While the front and rear holes lined up OK, the ones in the inner fender were much tougher. Partly because the extra cab and hood lift caused everything to shift, and some of them just need some tweaking, which was tricky by myself with tight clearances for some of the bolt, especially on the passenger side with all the extra plumbing. The end result though is always rewarding!

[Desoto61]

Success!

With most of the front sheet metal on I turned to other smaller tasks. Adding extra lubricant to the transmission to account for the tilt. Checking fluids and tightening all the fasteners. I had goofed when building the axle and put the front hubs on the wrong sides so I needed to swap the lug nuts so they were consistent and correct, which was easier than swapping hubs but tricky because the rotor makes driving them back in tough.

The goal was to see if I could actually drive it this last weekend. I wanted to add some extra gas to the tank to make sure I didn't suck air while moving, the easiest way right now is to go through the fuel filler. While I had it out I also drilled and installed some riv-nuts vice just trying to thread the thin tank metal which gives a better seal and a cleaner install. Then I strapped the battery down to the rear crossmember and zip tied the rear end and bed wiring out of the way.

The new gear shift lever wasn't ready so I fabricated one from some small square tubing I had left over along with the right fasteners at each end. It was quick and dirty but did the job. With that I could attempt to make it move. At first just forward and backward a few inches in the garage before finally pulling it out under it's own power!

I just went around the block but other than gas not wanting to stay in the tank it was some oddness with the brakes, and of course the speedometer isn't calibrated, but otherwise it went pretty well. All temps and pressures good no steering issues though the alignment is of course all wonky yet and they're not the right size tires either. Still I was looking back and it had first sat in that spot in the driveway almost 7 years earlier!