46 Power Wagon Restoration pt. 2

[Alxj64]

Damien, the truck looks amazing! Great work! Can't wait to see this thing in person!

[laddy]

Looks exceptional. I'm doing a similar swap 4bt into a 53 flat fender. I have everything mocked up and am starting to do all of the engine plumbing. Do you have any problems with the inter cooler or radiator you are using? From doing some research on 4btswaps seems like a new "stock" radiator should be more than adequate. Also I'm thinking of running 4.10s
(dana 70 or 80 with disks) with 37 inch tires. Do you think the 4bt will have enough muscle to pull that large of a tire with a relativity high gear? It should but you are one of the few people that have a very similar swap so I thought i would ask your advice before going and ordering everything.

[Desoto61]

Looks exceptional. I'm doing a similar swap 4bt into a 53 flat fender. I have everything mocked up and am starting to do all of the engine plumbing. Do you have any problems with the inter cooler or radiator you are using? From doing some research on 4btswaps seems like a new "stock" radiator should be more than adequate. Also I'm thinking of running 4.10s
(dana 70 or 80 with disks) with 37 inch tires. Do you think the 4bt will have enough muscle to pull that large of a tire with a relativity high gear? It should but you are one of the few people that have a very similar swap so I thought i would ask your advice before going and ordering everything.

Not that I know of, though I don't have any sensors telling me much about intercooler temps or pressures. Biggest problem I have with it is that it's narrower than the radiator, so I had to build a pair of shrouds to make sure I was getting flow through the stack instead of around it. If I had been been more patient or talented I would have had one custom built that was thinner but wider, though that would have caused some plumbing issues.

The radiator I used was a custom built aluminum unit but is a more conventional design. It has more than enough capacity for what I've done so far, my biggest issue is (again if I were doing it again) lack of room for a really good cooling fan. I could have shifted the engine/trans back 1/2"-1" and still not had too much issue with the intermediate shaft and made a lot more room for a nice big electric fan. As it sits now I have two smaller ones with an aluminum shroud. In traffic it never overheats but does run warm, though I've been told by a 6BT guru I work with that they are most efficient around 200 degrees, which is where she'll sit in traffic with the stock thermostat. I've had a very small leak from somewhere, but I am having a really hard time finding out exactly where, but I think it might be an engine gasket.

I'd think a 4:10 or 4:30 might be perfect, I know VPW had asked about making a custom run for our axles, and if I didn't already have so much in the 4:88's in mine I might consider it, not looking to rebuild my axles again, plus the $$$$. There's so much torque I don't think it will have an issue but shifting it right will be even more important. At least for my 4BT you have to keep it above 1500 rpm to have any real pickup, between 1000 and 1500 you have power but it's very sluggish. That will only be magnified with that kind of gearing.

I would play with a gear calculator on line, you want your target cruising speed to be around 1800 rpm. With 4.88s and 35s on mine 60 mph is close to 2000 rpm. I will probably eventually swap out my 35s for 37s, which should push that closer to 65 but I basically am always wishing I was one gear lower than where I am. Otherwise that bed probably weights 1000 lbs and honestly I'm not sure I can even tell from an engine standpoint.

Good luck and keep posting pics.

[laddy]

I was thinking that because the intercooler doesn't really need to be "cooling" unless you are moving(under load) it shouldn't need much fan speed. I may be wrong though but that makes sense about the shrouds. Was planning on having a shop in town make me a radiator sing on how i want to try and keep the original filler cap and with the intercooler it may be a challenge. I put the engine as far back as I could so I should have plenty of room for a fan think I have 4 inches between the engine and the " radiator". Ya I've heard that they like to run "hot" as well.

That was pretty much the main reason that I decided to get away from the original axles. They are very costly to make "modern" and there is not a whole lot of options in gearing options for them. Fww a rear axle out of a 90's dodge dually will have the same distance wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface as the pw axle, just need to move the perches. Ive messed with the calculators and 4.10 gears with 36.5(what 37 measure at) should put me at 1800 in 4th at 50 and 67 in 5th. That should be just about perfect I believe it allows you to make decent time. Not that I plan to drive cross country but I would like to go to the vpw rally as well as visit some family in neighboring states.

Thanks for being so fast to reply and confirming some of my thoughts now to break the bank.

[Desoto61]

The intercooler doesn't need the fan speed, but the radiator and the AC condenser really needs it most when sitting still. But still without the side shrouds air could get pulled around the stack instead of through it. I installed a trinary switch for the AC which not only protects the AC from too much or too little pressure, but also prevents the fan from kicking on if there's enough natural air flow. I also put the sensor for the fan thermostat in the return block on the engine and set it such that it only turns on when the return water temp gets high enough, which should only be at slow speeds.

I also plan on modifying my air intake to try and pull more air from outside the truck. There is a heat shield but it doesn't prevent the engine from pulling hot air from under the hood.

I don't think there's a cheap way around the axles regardless of how you go. I didn't go that route for three reasons:
1) I was already taking on a huge project and didn't need the trouble of track width, suspension mounting, and most importantly trying to properly design a steering system. Getting that wrong can be dangerous.
2) To me the BUDD wheels are a fundamental part of the look of the truck. I've seen people have custom adapters/hubs machined to adapt a modern axle to the BUDD lug pattern, but that has to be crazy expensive if you can find someone to do it.
3) I don't believe you actually save that much. You get much more flexibility and parts availability is better. However buying used axles, rebuilding and updating them and adapting them to fit under the truck, or buying custom axles that are ready to bolt up isn't fundamentally cheaper than rebuilding and upgrading the Chrysler axles.

In my opinion if you are going to swap out the axles and the engine and trans you are better off just swapping the whole frame for something more modern. All the important engineering is already done for you (brakes, suspension, steering, etc), and fitting the body over that can't be any more difficult than adapting all those parts to the stock frame, and future maintenance is much easier. Honestly at that point what's left but the body anyway?

[laddy]

I'm not running a/c at least not yet. If its really hot out I can take one of my other vehicles. I may end up doing it in the future but didn't want to have to deal with it at this time. I plan on just using a relay that basically closes when it gets hot and opens when it gets cold for the fan. Forget what these are called but I have one and it just screws into one of the head sending ports. There will also be a override for the fans in the cab. Then just flaps in the shroud that would open if the fan can't hold a vacuum, normally at speed, but sometimes you can get high pressure in the engine compartment then you would need the fans.

Ya the intake seems like its going to be tricky not much room for it anywhere unless you want to run a ton of tube or do some major hacking.

Ya I agree with you on the axles its one of 2 options. I actually looked at it the opposite way that it will allow me to improve the drive-ability of the truck and at the end of the day that's what its all about. I do agree that the budds just look right on trucks and give them a unique look. However if I recall correctly it was going to be north of 5 thousand dollars to bring the axles up to " modern" drive ability standards and that doesn't include the wait for the new ring and pinion to be made. Then you are still stuck with only 2 gear ratios and 6 month or longer wait possible for parts if something breaks. I didn't do a ton of research knowing what parts cross reference with the axles but knowing that not a ton of these trucks are on the road and availability of parts in 20-30 years may bee an issue, I didn't want to start having everything custom made. I've seen that happen and its not fun but who knows were could be printing all of our parts at home in 10 years. What fueled my decision was the flexibility to walk into most any auto parts store and be able to find what you need if something breaks. I found a heavier duty axle (dana 80) with disks 4.10 and a limited slip for $500 and it just didn't make sense for me to pass that up.

I do agree that adapters are the way to go and I don't actually think that they would be all that expensive to make/have made in comparison. I picture them as a dually spacer on a front axle but then with an adapter to the budd style, if designed properly it shouldn't effect functionality while giving the look desired.


For visualization

[Desoto61]

The axles were definitely one of the biggest expenses I had, and one of the biggest limitations. Your number is probably about right, but that's fully rebuilt with disk brakes, upgraded front axle shafts, disk brakes at all four corners, front axle locks, a centered rear housing, and an ARB air-locker. Some of those I got good deals on but still.

Even with a used junkyard axle like you're talking about you'll have another $500 in rebuilding it, then you have to work on pinion angles and spring perches, and that's assuming the track width works and you don't have to change it. The front needs to match in ratio and width of course. Honestly when I looked at the options it wasn't a huge difference.

Parts availability is definitely not as easy, but I don't know that it will be that bad either. Most of the important parts interchange between military and civilan and combined that's a lot of vehicles. The disk brakes are all off the shelf wear parts. And honestly the ratio is only a problem for a diesel engine. A gas motor would be pretty happy at 65 with 4.88s.

I totally get why people do it, I was tempted to do it myself, but once the stock axles are gone I just don't see the point of saving the stock frame either, if you just swap axles you'll still have 70 mph axles under a suspension and steering meant for 50 mph with the same parts issues as the axles have. Just upgrade the whole setup since in reality what you want is a modern driver with a PW body on it. The work is the same and the parts you're modifying are the least likely to kill you or someone else if you screw them up.

Regardless it's your truck, do as you wish it only has to make you happy, just my opinion after going through the process myself. I'll be curious to see what you do about the adapters.

[Desoto61]

Little things

Took the truck to it's first truck show, it had a lot of interest. Won the most valuable prize at the show too, the 50/50! There were some really nice trucks but ironically mine was one of the most usable there. Most of the others were garage queens, or not really a truck any more, but they were fancy. It was a small show, but not a bad morning.

With the bed mostly done I've been playing with smaller tasks and other projects. For the Power Wagon that meant finally rebuilding the PTO for the transmission. Blasted and painted the case and installed new bearings, races, and seals. Waiting on the mounting studs and then I'll have to work on getting it bolted to the transmission.

The small round side mirrors are just too small, especially now that the bed is finished and installed, so I looked for some larger mirrors and found a set of generic 5x7 units that mount correctly but I'd loose the integrated turn signals I liked, luckily there's a fix for that. They make LED indicators you install behind the mirrors. I had to play with how to remove the right amount of the backing paint, and ended up damaging one mirror, but the final result works, not as bright as I would like but I get better visibility and keep all the same features.

I've also started laying out the design for my running boards. Have the design for the mounting brackets and measurements to make the framework. Then I'll have a piece of diamond plate bent up and bolt to the framework and have everything sprayed with the bed liner before installing.

[Desoto61]

My Desoto is in the garage currently getting some much needed TLC. The Power Wagon is mostly just being used for truck things.

This weekend we got caught up in the winter weather that tracked up the east coast, a good 8-10" of snow in our area and a lot of wind, which not only created some interesting snow sculptures.

It was a good excuse to use 4WD, though with some weight over KO2s it wasn't all the necessary, but it wasn't all fun and games. The second time out to get a few odds and ends the fuel problem I had last year when it got this cold returned. I got it started after priming the system with the lift pump first then topped off the tank and made sure to add some anti-gel treatment, but this morning ran into the same problem on the way to work. Priming the lift pump on the motor helped get her started again so I seem to be sucking air from somewhere, but only when it's really cold. It only happens after it's run for a while.

Luckily the temperatures are going back to normal, which should solve my problem in the short term, but long term I'm going to need to go through the fuel system and see where this might be coming from.

[Desoto61]

Lots of stuff going on so mostly driving the Power Wagon, but little things I'm finding as I use it. The bed isn't draining well, opened up the drain holes as they like to clog with debris. After a particularly heavy the water got high enough to get in the tool box I keep in the bed box, need to find a better box, but it also meant it got high enough to get in my air compressor. So I unbolted it from the bed floor, cleaned it up as best I could and mounted it higher inside the battery area. Worked OK but not sure for how long, but it sees little use typically so will probably last a long time for my purposes, and if not it will be an excuse to upgrade ;)

Managed to burn out or damage the linear motor for the windshield opener, so I'm going to need to revisit that mechanism which I didn't love anyway. It blew the fuse which also ran my power locks so had to break into my own truck since it wouldn't unlock, luckily knowing how the lock mechanism works didn't make that too bad. Have a few ideas to prevent similar issues in the future.

Starter has been slow which I figured was a battery issue, but a few weeks ago I just got the "click" after a drive so I knew the battery was charged, couple of whacks of the starter and she fired but went home and ordered a new rebuild kit for the solenoid contacts. Also swapped out the last piece of the battery cable with some higher quality military grade 0-gauge cable at the same time. Still not convinced the battery doesn't need replaced but she definitely starts better and more consistently.

Mostly the truck is being used for shows and doing truck stuff. Have a bunch of work in getting my house ready to sell, and I've been hauling materials and boxes for various projects. Had an excuse yesterday to take some stuff to the local dump and per the scales the truck weighed out at 7140 lbs including me, so figure about 6900 lbs with a 1/2 tank of fuel. Can't imagine what she weighed when it still had all the tow equipment in the bed!

Was looking around under the hood at the last show (pic below) and noticed that I need to tweak my throttle linkage, it hits the return spring bracket just before full throttle, I've never needed full throttle but will need to tweak that design, it was also hitting the cable for the cruise control which is also held by that same bracket, I haven't gotten that working right yet either, so while the peddle linkage works well enough the return spring bracket is going to need some re-design.

Everyone loves seeing her running around though, and I still want the bigger 37" tires as 60 mph is about 2000 rpm which is as high as I like running the Cummins on longer drives. Otherwise I need to find some time to mount the PTO on the transmission, it will take me a while before I get a chance to build out the activation lever and hook up the winch, as I need to get my old beater Dakota cleaned up so I can get rid of that, the wife is not thrilled with how many vehicles are hanging around or that they end up affecting her ability to park in the driveway!

I really want to get the running boards done but need to get the brackets cut, not that I really have time or money for that right now, but I'm really starting to miss having those.

[Alxj64]

, but it sees little use typically so will probably last a long time for my purposes, and if not it will be an excuse to upgrade ;)

ARB Twin Piston Compressor... 100% Duty Cycle and 6.16 CFM at 90 PSI !!! Its crazy powerful but draws like 60A so right next to the battery is where it will need to be!

Still not convinced the battery doesn't need replaced but she definitely starts better and more consistently.

I've had two brand new Exide Batteries die on me while sitting with no draw for only about a month and a half. Really really annoyed, and I lost the invoice so stupid Tractory Supply won't return them. I'm replacing them with Interstate here shortly.

I really want to get the running boards done but need to get the brackets cut, not that I really have time or money for that right now, but I'm really starting to miss having those.

I have a huge order of steel being delivered the end of this week, so if you have something in mind, I need to burn off some of this material to recoupe my funds. I'm not terribly expensive when it comes to this stuff... at least I hope I'm not. Let me know if you come up with something. I can't wait to have mine on the road so I can (if invited) be another Power Wagon at events with ya.

[Desoto61]

ARB Twin Piston Compressor... 100% Duty Cycle and 6.16 CFM at 90 PSI !!! Its crazy powerful but draws like 60A so right next to the battery is where it will need to be!

I'm sure I'd upgrade if/when that one dies. Wouldn't mind adding an air tank under the bed like you did for the flexibility. Luckily that's exactly where my compressor sits is in the battery section of my bed box. I rewired the OEM harness to activate a relay as opposed to directly powering the unit so updates like that are even easier.

I've had two brand new Exide Batteries die on me while sitting with no draw for only about a month and a half. Really really annoyed, and I lost the invoice so stupid Tractory Supply won't return them. I'm replacing them with Interstate here shortly.

I have an Optima red top in it now, and fully charged it's fine, but after a week of sitting with the alarm on it's hard to start, which is crazy considering my Dakota will sit for months and fire right up, I can't see the alarm pulling that kind of juice, which means the reserve capacity of the Optima is compromised. Have a bunch of space so will probably go to a larger more conventional AGM battery but will have to redesign my hold downs.

I have a huge order of steel being delivered the end of this week, so if you have something in mind, I need to burn off some of this material to recoupe my funds. I'm not terribly expensive when it comes to this stuff... at least I hope I'm not. Let me know if you come up with something.

Great! I sent you a file a few months ago for the running board brackets for when you did your next run, but that was before you started your sprint for the finish line, and I wasn't lacking for projects since the DeSoto was still in pieces in my garage. If you don't have the file let me know and I'll shoot it over again. I'm never worried about your costs, they're probably too cheap, but materials in general shouldn't be too bad. Most of the cost will be in having the final product blasted, primed, and then sprayed with bed liner.

I can't wait to have mine on the road so I can (if invited) be another Power Wagon at events with ya.

It will be an impressive sight, though I don't mind basking in the glory by myself for a little longer, yours will definitely steal the show when it's done!

[Matt Wilson]

Lots more wiring for the tail lights. Used a pair of "light bolts" for the license plate lights, they work really well, though the tiny little wire is tricky to connect up, same with power to the backup camera, tiny little wires.

Also added a light in the battery box, and ran a set of wires for a jumper-cable connection. This consisted of a pair of battery cables and a set of jumper cables with the ends swapped for a HD plug. This will hide in the tool box portion and make it easy to either jump start another vehicle (or mine if needed). In testing everything worked properly, and I even was thinking ahead and had the bed lights wired up so they trigger with the courtesy lights on the truck.

I had run a wire to the tail to I think allow me to trigger the backup lights as work lights if I wanted, but honestly those light bolts put out plenty of light at the rear of the truck when on, so for now I just capped off the wire.

Next was to install all the panels on the bed box. The main cover plate was a bit of a trick in that it had to be snaked under the stake pockets and then have the wires for the bed lights tucked into their notches (which had to be cut, I didn't think that through before, so I used some spray-on liner to protect the cut edges). The coating on the bed floor is thick enough it did cause a little interference, and required slightly longer screws to hold it in place.

The lid I riveted the hinge to the top and then it screws into the bed, I added some gasket material around the back and sides to help seal out water. I don't expect it to be water tight, but that should keep most of the moisture out. Then I re-installed the gas strut to help open and hold open the lid. The lock openings had to be cleaned out and the locks tweaked a little as the liner thickness prevented them from latching. Same went for the battery box cover. With those all installed I loaded all the accessories and re-installed the spare and called it done (for now)!

It's remarkable how it changes the truck, not just in looks, but the ride is softer with 1000 lbs of bed over the back axle, and it also helps dampen some of the diesel vibration at idle. The Cummins however doesn't seem to notice any of the extra weight.

We'll see what problems crop up in service, but for now the bed is done and I can start trying to figure out how I want to build the running boards. I also have the parts to rebuild the PTO unit so I can try and get the winch working. Finally the interior still doesn't really exist, and as always there are a ton of little things I need to tackle or improve.

Wow, that's a fantastic-looking truck!

[Desoto61]

Lots going on that did not involve the Power Wagon, gone to a show or two, used it run some errands around town, but until this week not a ton of work. Finally hauled the truck into the garage to install the PTO on the transmission. Install was pretty straight forward and essentially the same as on a stock truck, remove cover, install studs, mount PTO, set backlash, refill transmission. Other than wrestling a 20 lb PTO over my head the hardest part was getting the dial indicator in place to check the backlash. The only thing unique was that the trans fluid in the NV4500 is kind of special, and therefore expensive, so I bought a new container and re-used it. I had to add about another 1.5 quarts to top it off. Plus side is everything inside the transmission looked good while I had the cover off.

I'll need to order the components for the PTO driveshaft which should be pretty straightforward, and build an operator lever which won't be. The simple solution would be to convert it to either cable or air operated, but that's no fun, I would rather it look stock so I'll need to build a linkage between the stock lever position and the PTO actuator.

[Matthew Welcher PWA]

Looks fantastic, will it allow you a straight shot up to the winch itself, to make use of a stock type PTO shaft? Or will you need to add additional joints to make it fit?

[Desoto61]

The way I assembled it I should have a straight shot to the winch, and yes it uses a 1-1/4" shaft so it should look and operate much like a factory setup which was what I wanted, but I haven't looked into it too far yet. Fuel tank first. The hard part will actually be the linkage to make the stock cab lever location work for the not-stock location of this PTO. It will probably be a bit, need to get the fuel tank fixed first and then I want to build my running boards next.

[Desoto61]

I found out a few months ago the fuel sender hasn't been working right, I had it out once before the bed was installed and checked it and added a extra ground wire, but it still didn't read correctly. So finally decided to drop the tank and replace the sender with a capacitive sender from the same company I got the gauges from. Dropping the tank was straight forward but messy, and removing the old gauge showed a lot of corrosion on the sender unit, so while it stated it was diesel rated that was not exactly true. I haven't been thrilled with the fuel lines I used either so those will be swapped out while everything is apart.

While parts are coming I also fixed some minor issues with the throttle linkage hitting the return spring bar at WOT and some minor adjustments to the linkage to get to WOT as it was stopping a little short. I also want to make some modifications to my air intake to try and better isolate it from under hood heat.

My biggest concerns though are the axles and clearance. I noticed I still have issues with the axle hitting the oil pan, on the side this time where the plug for the oil heater is, so eventually I think I need to get another oil pan and do a rethink of my clearance. The rear axle is rubbing against the skid plate as well, so while it's down I'm going to have to build some clearance there as well.