My 1949 B-1 PW Project

[PWFFnut]

The best place to be

It really was a great looking truck to start with. My original plan was just to repair the engine and have fun with it for awhile but I just couldn't resist. It may seem ridiculous to some but I figured, the longer I wait to restore it, the harder it would be to find parts.

You are in the place to be for help & advice the members here on this form are very knowledgeable and helpful they have helped Me a lot in the past I ow many thanks to all who have shared so much info and know how.I think I should have done a resto on My truck a long time a go I would have a lot less rust to deal with

I wish you all the best luck with your truck

[Charles Talbert]

My workplace had some bobbins powdercoated- wasn't impressed as it chips right off. I'd ask around about epoxy or two-part urethane. Surface prep is really important- follow the paint maker's directions exactly, you'd be surprised how many people assume coatings are all the same- they most certainly are not! Charles at M37 Rebuild might have better insight on what holds up in the real world, depending on what you plan to do, and what sort of climate you'll be seeing.

Preparation is 99.9% of a job that will hold up well regardless of which finishing system you will be using.

In regards to knuckle housings or any other castings of this type that have been subjected to grease and oil for years, the oils that have impregnated the castings must be completely removed prior to coating. A good powder coater will clean, blast, and run the housing through the curing oven to cook out all remaining oil from the casting before he even thinks about applying any coating. Powder coating done right using quality materials and technique is the toughest, longest lasting coating for frame components and casting that we have found. The folks who talk about easy chip off and such; well you just have not experienced the use of powder coating done right. I know this because I went through 2 coating contractors before using the one we have used now for several years and have no plans of leaving. The first 2 were all about running the stuff through hurriedly and turning a quick buck and not at all concerned about taking the necessary steps to be assured of the best quality job.

It's hard these days to get contractors to spend the time to do it right; then you get the easy chip off of the finish and all sorts of other issues that have put a bad taste about powder coating in the mouths of some. Our first 2 contractors just wrote us off as too hard to please; but if better is possible, good just isn't enough around here. The one we use now appreciates our business and the fact that we want things done the best they can be. He says it compliments both our business and his. People have told him he must be good if he can please M Series Rebuild, and that it's proof positive to others that he is good at his trade because we continue to use him. It's been a win-win situation for both of us.

Don't be fooled about powder coating because you may have seen a job that came out wrong. You need to pay attention to how it is being done, and demand it be done right. There is also a huge difference in powder types; just like wet coating paint, there is the cheap stuff and the premium quality. If your contractor is using the cheapest powder he can acquire, there is no need for you to expect a top quality, long lasting job. The best powder along with the best technique of prep, application, curing, etc is what makes a quality job.

[Blaszer]

I just did my whole chassis on my 53 project with chassis saver...That stuff is amazing...I sprayed the last 2 coats, but brushed the first 2 and it self levels with no brush marks! Just be sure to wear gloves, It doesnt come off of ANYTHING too well, at least not or a couple weeks...(I'm from just south of Buffalo too)

[QuantumJo]

I've become no fan of Power Coating as well.

My workplace had some bobbins powdercoated- wasn't impressed as it chips right off.

I'm in the same camp. once the powder coating chips, and it will chip, it will start to flake. I have had outstanding sucess with Chassis Saver. http://www.magnetpaints.com/underbody.asp
if it chips it can very quickly be fixed with some sand paper and a paint brush. Powder Coating is a much more difficult to repair. I used Chassis Saver on the front axle of my 2000 Cherokee Sport. It still looks great after years of Buffalo, NY salt laden winter roads. For me powder coat headers.... yes, frame and axles, no way.

[maineSS]

Finally remembered to bring the reciept with me- in Nov '09 I bought 25 ft of black .031" x 2" delrin strip for $27.25, which was enough for one front spring with a little left over. Shipping was extra. PN is 2638T22, selling for $1.09 per ft at that time. I cut each strip to match the upper leaf it bears against, starting from the bottom leaf up. Didn't use any adhesive, just cut each strip with straight aviation snips after scribing the leaf outline, and let the bolts and spring clips keep them in place. You have to align them a bit as you tighten the bolts, but they stayed mostly in place. Don't think adhesive would last long under the movement and pressure as the spring flexes.

[mageew]

Delrin Strips

I dug up the receipt last night- it was Delrin (which is tougher than UHMW). In 2009, I paid ~$35 for enough to do 1 spring at $1 per foot. Still forgot to bring it in- I must be demented.

I think I found the Delrin strips at McMaster - the 2" wide black strips, .031 thickness are item number "2638T22" and, you're right - it's about $1 per foot.

I'm interested to know what thickness you used & how you held the strips in place while you assembled the leaves. Did you use adhesive?

[maineSS]

I dug up the receipt last night- it was Delrin (which is tougher than UHMW). In 2009, I paid ~$35 for enough to do 1 spring at $1 per foot. Still forgot to bring it in- I must be demented.

[mageew]

(Lack of) Progress

I'm kind of in a holding pattern for now as I wait for the rest of my seals & bearings for the front wheel/axle rebuild to arrive. I'm also waiting for a new ring gear & pinion from VPW.

Keeping busy around the shop by painting the knuckle joint housings, drums, etc. After reading everything I could get my hands on I decided to go with Chassis Saver for these parts. I don't have the space for a proper paint spraying set-up so I had to go with something I could paint on. I've been pretty meticulous about prep so I'm hoping to avoid a bad experience like some I've read about.

My frame should be finished getting powder coated in the next day or so & when I pick it up I'm going to drop off my axle housing and differential cover to have that painted. Hopefully I'll be ready to put the whole front axle/wheels back together by the time it's painted.

Next project will be the rear wheels/axle/diff. Hopefully there will be no major surprises there. Should be a simpler project having just done the front. I expect that I'll be able to work on the leaf springs in tandem. With any luck I'll have a rolling chassis next month!

Should be posting some painted parts soon!

[mageew]

McMaster-Carr Product

As I recall, McMaster-Carr's UHMW rolls were 2" wide, black or white in color, and around $60 with shipping a couple years ago- prices may have changed. I had to cut them down with scissors to fit the PW 1 1/2" leaf size. Your clips will likely have to be remade to accomodate the increased pack thickness. Haven't heard of any extrusion or weardown problems, but time will have it's way with virtually any material, so you should retorque the U-bolts occasionally- especially with new springs. Forgot to bring in the Mcmaster receipt, will try to remember next time.

I checked out McMaster's web site - it's a little difficult to navigate but it looks like the plain-backed (non-adhesive) 2" wide UHMW PE is $86/100 ft. That's roughly the same price as the adhesive-backed Durasurf. The adhesive-backed strips from McMaster are quite a bit more expensive. I think I'm going to go with the Durasurf although I'm not sure it will make any difference. The adhesive may make assembly easier even if it doesn't last. If you run across that receipt & have the product number, I'll check it out - I may have been looking at a different product. Thanks!

[maineSS]

As I recall, McMaster-Carr's UHMW rolls were 2" wide, black or white in color, and around $60 with shipping a couple years ago- prices may have changed. I had to cut them down with scissors to fit the PW 1 1/2" leaf size. Your clips will likely have to be remade to accomodate the increased pack thickness. Haven't heard of any extrusion or weardown problems, but time will have it's way with virtually any material, so you should retorque the U-bolts occasionally- especially with new springs. Forgot to bring in the Mcmaster receipt, will try to remember next time.

[mageew]

UHMW Polyethylene Leaf Spring Inserts

Thanks Doc. I did a bit of research on that topic & it seems that my concerns about the material being extruded isn't a problem anyone has described. In fact, the only negative things I've read have been with regard to it being worth the trouble. The place that built my springs just slapped on some cheap paint so I've already decided that I'm going to disassemble & repaint them. At that point, adding UHMW PE strips would be pretty straight-forward. I may need some new hardware given the increased thickness of the stack. I did some calculations and it'll add just under 1/4" total thickness if I go with a .03 strip and just under 1/2" if I use .06 (seems the recommended range is somewhere between .03-.06).

The benefits, as I see it, would be smoother action between springs, less noise & protection of the paint on the leaves. In my research, I found that this material is used in modern cars to prevent squeaks & creaks between body parts. Since it seems that Power Wagons are mostly bolted together, I wonder where else this stuff could come in handy?

With respect to cost, I found a product called "Durasurf" that you can get from Crown Plastics for $85 for a 100 ft roll of 3"x.031 with adhesive backing. There's video floating around of a guy putting this on his leaf springs floating around on the internet.

Thanks for the insight & thanks for the link to your restoration photos - I showed them to my wife so she'll realize that all those hours I'm spending in the garage have a purpose! She sees me out there covered in parts cleaner with tools strewn about everywhere and I think she kinda pities me. Seeing your truck come back to life was the first time I think she began to understand & even get a little excited for me. I'll take what I can get!

Will

[Doc Dave]

Magee,

Nice progress. What Maine says makes sense about between the leaves issues, particularly on a truck that will be worked hard.
With my '52, with which I completed a body off complete resto on last fall, is more of a show and Sunday driver truck that I occasionally take in the field and mountains. I did not know about the spring pack loosening when I did the resto, and what I did is the following:
Disassembeled and blasted all the leaves.
Epoxy primer followed by coat of hardened urethane on each leaf.
Reassemble the pack with thin layer of the red (water resistant) marine grease between the leaves.

Since I did this four years ago, the pack still looks brand new. No spring related issues have arisen, but again light use for most part (I did pull my CTD out of the ditch with it last winter ;) No rust, no chipping so far.

I had contacted DuPont about teflon sheets between leaves and it was too expensive direct from them, but what Maine mentioned sounds, on the surface, a lot cheaper and I presume would work in a similar way. But, others say that teflon-like material is bad between leaves because it allows excessive movement? Not sure if all this is overkill.

Here is my image event site. You will see pics of my springs as well as other parts of the resto. The guest password is shamrocksdoc
http://imageevent.com/share/powerwagonrestoration

[mageew]

UHMW Polyethylene

You can get UHMW strip in rolls from McMaster-Carr in black and white colors- I think I still have my reciept with the PN, I'll post it later if my memory is correct... Good tool improvisation!

Thanks for the recommendation - I checked out McMaster-Carr. Unfortunately, you may have just cost me my marriage as I'm pretty sure I'll be going over budget now that I know that place exists! Hmmm, maybe I'll just do like Congress & raise my debt ceiling...

I like the idea of UHMW PE in theory - seems that it would make the springs quieter and smoother - my concern, though, is similar to the point you made about powder coating:

"You also don't want any coating that will wear off between the leafs- they have to be kept tightly drawn together by the U-bolts, and as the coating wears off, the pack will loosen enough to result in a broken leaf or U-bolt."

I'm concerned it will wear/extrude from between the leaves & result in failure by the same mechanism. I really like this idea, though - definitely going to research this one.

[maineSS]

You can get UHMW strip in rolls from McMaster-Carr in black and white colors- I think I still have my reciept with the PN, I'll post it later if my memory is correct... Good tool improvisation!

[mageew]

Socket Abuse

I am curious. How did you cut the slot in the socket?

I used a 4 1/2" cutoff wheel and I was actually a little surprised at how easily it cut the socket. I felt a little bad about cutting it but, for some reason, I had two of that size & I actually think it's still useable. I thought about making a second cut at 90 degrees to the existing one to accept another piece of metal (to make 2 more "cleats") but decided to try it with just one. The nut was pretty badly rusted in place but the torque wrench zipped it right off.

By the way, THAT (the torque wrench) was something I wish I had purchased a long time ago! My neighbor recommended that I get one when I started this project & even offered to lend me his. At the time, I thought it was overkill. I finally broke down & bought one last week to take off a mangled & rusted companion yoke nut after failing to get results with my trusty wrench & floor jack handle (e'hem, "lever"). When I think of how much easier it would have been to take off all those rusty bolts with that impact wrench I feel kinda sick!

Here's a picture of the condition of my ring gear: