PTO Noise

[KenaiGary]

I've searched the forum and can't find the answer so here goes. Being a new guy I need lots of advice. I have a MW300 PW that had a new PTO shaft installed. It no longer has a lever and lock system and seems to have three gear notches; forward, rear and neutral. When I start the truck, it sounds like the PTO is running, but it isn't. When I push the clutch, the sound stops. Is this a normal sound? I am really attuned to sounds in my vehicles (drive my wife crazy) so just wondering if I need to check out the linkage.

Thanks again to all of you that have answered my questions and provided such helpful guidance. After three days of washing, polishing, waxing and some minor tweaks and repairs, I finally took it for a drive today. Still more to do, parts to order,etc., but I had to drive it on a sunny day and show off the new rig. I had it shipped to AK and got it Friday. Loving it!

[Steve in NJ]

It sounds more like the trans throughout bearing to me.

Steve

[Cheyenne Dave]

The main drive gear in the PTO is always meshed with the transmission, and will turn whenever the transmission is engaged.

A throw-out bearing, what Steve mentioned, will make noise when the clutch is depressed, not when released. This is opposite of what you describe.

If you are hearing a noise from the PTO when the transmission is engaged, you likely have bearing or gear issues within the PTO unit.

You say you had a "new PTO shaft installed". Are you meaning the PTO drive shaft or output shaft? If it was the output shaft, again I would look to the PTO itself.

C.D.

[KenaiGary]

PTO Noise

I only hear it when the truck is in neutral and the clutch is out. When I push the clutch in, it stops although it is possible once I start driving it is making the sound and I can't hear it due to regular road and transmission noise. When I come to a stop and put it in neutral the sound is there, push in the clutch and it stops.

As far as I know (the former owner isn't very cooperative in providing input about the PW), the PTO drive shaft is new and the PTO inside shifter is new; it is now a direct drive without the lockout/lock-in shiftter like the original. I am going to go through the receipts the owner sent me tonight and see if I can learn anything more.

I'm taking it to my mechanic on Thur. Thanks!

[Cheyenne Dave]

You should try to get the lever linkage, as the PTO is just about worthless without a safe and positive way to engage and disengage.

On the bright side, the handle is very easy to duplicate should you want to fabricate one. It's made from 3/8" x 1 1/4" bar stock.

As to the noise you are hearing, it could just as easy be coming from the tranny as the PTO. You have some investigation in your future...

C.D.

[KenaiGary]

PTO Noise

The shaft has a positive forward, neutral and rear engagement and it seems more robust than the original. You're right, I have more investigating to do...and more learning about the truck overall. Thanks

[Gordon Maney]

Probably the PTO was not installed correctly with regard to shimming it out from the case so sufficient lash existed between its gear and a transmission gear. One gear is meshing too deeply into another.

Don't ask me how I learned this....

[KenaiGary]

PTO Noise

This sounds reasonable and from someone who may have experienced such noise...thanks, Gordon. If this is true, it is presently beyond my mechanical skills so my mechanic, and he is a good one, will need to work it. Wouldn't know what I'd do without this forum and the Dodge power wagon forum.

I told my wife how impossible it would be to get these answers in Alaska before the Internet and the forums. She then reminds me that before the internet, I wouldn't have found a truck in Oregon that I wanted to buy and then shipped to AK. She's right as usual...

[Gordon Maney]

I think you are probably capable of doing the work, I just don't have time to type a response right now.

Later....

[Matt Wilson]

I was going to suggest the same thing that Gordon suggested. I seem to recall that you will hear noise from the PTO whether the PTO is too far from the transmission (too many shims) or too close to the transmission (too few shims). I had PTO noise issues many years ago, which were finally eliminated when I installed the correct number of shims.

Although I don't have it front of me right now, I believe the Power Wagon shop manual has the instructions and specifications for getting the number of shims correct, based on the amount of backlash measured between the PTO gear and the transmission gear that meshes with it. It requires that you start by removing the rectangular cover on the right side of the transmission, opposite of the side that the PTO is installed on. You probably have to get as much of the lube out from between the gears as possible, as that will yield an incorrect backlash reading. You will have to use a dial indicator to get the backlash reading.

Based on the amount of backlash you read, there is a corresponding number of shims that must be installed. I got my pack of metal shims from Vintage Power Wagons, with a variety of thicknesses, already cut to fit the opening between the PTO and transmission. To me, the most difficult part was struggling to position the PTO onto the side of the transmission while laying on the floor beneath it. That PTO gets very heavy after just a short while. And I believe I had to try more than once to get it shimmed properly. I probably did not get enough of the gear lube out from between the gears to get a proper backlash reading.

[KenaiGary]

PTO Noise

This is helpful, Matt and expands on Gordon's advice. I printed off your post and will discuss it with my mechanic on Thur. I'm not quite ready to tackle this myself; I could screw it up worse.

[Gordon Maney]

The original gaskets were paper, in layers, and you peeled them off until you had the correct thickness.

You take off both PTO covers and measure backlash through the opposite side.

Being too deep, insufficient clearance, is growly and also damaging. Being too shallow is not so damaging, and may not be audible.

I believe I could set one up fine with no dial indicator. I am not suggesting you do so.

[KenaiGary]

PTO oise

I checked the shop manual that I have, L-Series, that covers the WM300 and could find no mention of the PTO linkage to the trans. Checked VPW and they have a PTO gasket and seal set for rebuild and also two different size gaskets for PTO to Trans, which sounds like what I might need.

Hopefully I'll know more on Thursday after the mechanic listens to it.

[dbrawley]

Hi ya, Gary! I just bought a '47 WDX and it is doing the same thing your truck is/was: Trans in neutral, clutch pedal out=whiring noise from PTO. Push clutch pedal in, noise stops. So what was the fix? Did you end up shimming? Was there any damage to the transmission or the PTO? Hope you get this!
Dave

[KenaiGary]

I took it to a mechanic I trust and he said it was OK and wasn't going to cause any damage. I don't believe it and plan to have another guy check it out soon. I'm not driving it in the winter unless the snow gets really deep on the roads.