Steering Knuckle Grease

[Matt Wilson]

I know this topic has been hashed over many times, more so on Joe's forum than Gordon's, but I'm asking anyway.....

I see some people stating that #2 grease should (or can) be used in the u-joints (Trachta joints) inside the knuckle, as well as in the knuckle upper and lower bearings themselves.

However, when I look at my manual for my '49 Power Wagon, it says to use "semi-fluid" grease. I have a couple of other manuals for WWII Dodges, which both state to use General Purpose Grease No 1 (presumably No. 1 means the grade or thickness) for temps above +32 deg F, or General Purpose Grease No. 0 for temps below +32 deg F. I suppose these would be "semi-fluid" greases.

My questions/comments stem from the ability of greases to flow. Each grease would seem to have its pro's and con's, as listed below:

1) If semi-fluid grease is self-leveling, it will probably find its way into the lower tapered roller bearing, and the bronze axle shaft bushings and the Trachta joint better than No. 2 grade grease. I have a concern that No. 2 grease would get pushed out of the way of the Trachta joint during use, and would no longer adequately lubricate it, whereas No. 1 or 0 would.

2) Again, if semi-fluid grease is self-leveling, will it tend to flow out of the upper bronze bearings over time, leaving them somewhat dry. However, I believe they are oilite bronze bearings, so maybe they will lube themselves adequately? I think No. 2 grade grease would have better clinging ability and would work better for the upper bearing.

3) Will semi-fluid grease have more tendency to seep past the outer bronze bushings and into the wheel bearings, and maybe eventually onto the brakes?

4) Are there people who have experience with using No. 2 grease in the steering knuckles, and have later disassembled them to find them still in good shape (or bad shape)? If so, was this after a long period of use, and was the 4-wheel drive in use for much of this time?

5) Where do I find No. 1 or No. 0 grease? I went to NAPA yesterday, and all they had was No. 2.

I know some people have advocated the use of an oil in the steering knuckle, but I have no intention of doing this, as I think it would just quickly come out of the felt seals and also run into the wheel bearings and eventually onto the brakes.

As a side note, those same two WWII Dodge manuals also state that the wheel bearings should be lubed with No. 2 General Purpose Grease, although one of them states that No. 3 should be used for temps above +90 deg F, when "wheel bearing lubricant leakage is experienced." Some folks have stated that the same grease should be used for steering knuckles and for wheel bearings, but this seems not to be the recommendation in the manuals.


Thanks,

Matt

[Gordon Maney]

I have always used chassis grease from my grease gun.

[Matt Wilson]

I have always used chassis grease from my grease gun.

So that would be No. 2 Grade? I suppose either chassis grease or wheel bearing grease in a can or a tube (again No. 2 grade) would be ok?

I know you've had your truck a long time, so I'm sure you've had the knuckle apart a few times, and I'm guessing you were satisfied with the wear situation (meaning a lack of wear)?

Also, do you use the 4-wheel drive much?


Thanks, Gordon!

[Gordon Maney]

So that would be No. 2 Grade? I suppose either chassis grease or wheel bearing grease in a can or a tube (again No. 2 grade) would be ok?

I know you've had your truck a long time, so I'm sure you've had the knuckle apart a few times, and I'm guessing you were satisfied with the wear situation (meaning a lack of wear)?

Also, do you use the 4-wheel drive much?


Thanks, Gordon!

I have to admit, I don't speak grade numbers, but I am not sure I have seen grease marketed that way. I only find chassis grease labeled as such. Many brands to be sure.

These circumstances were seasonally affected here in Iowa, meaning I did not use the front drive axle much at all in the summer, but a lot in the winter. I saw no signs that chassis grease was not sufficient.

Perhaps to generalize too much, you don't often see failures due to less than optimum lubricants, you seem them from lubricant levels being too low or lube intervals being too infrequent. Stated in another way, failures result from neglect more than they result from lubricant choice.

[Matt Wilson]

I have to admit, I don't speak grade numbers, but I am not sure I have seen grease marketed that way. I only find chassis grease labeled as such. Many brands to be sure.

Usually on the can or the tube, in some obscure corner, it will say something like "NLGI 2" although it seems that not all of greases have the designation marked on the container. Most standard chassis greases and wheel bearing greases I've seen are Grade 2, so the one you're referring to probably falls in that category. Some greases have lower numbers, which means they are thinner (lower viscosity), and will tend to flow more easily.

If you've been using standard chassis grease with good results, then that should be good enough for me. I believe that's what I used as well, but never paid that much attention till recently. So when I started digging into it, I found that not everybody shared the same opinion on what should be used, based on their research or experience.


Thanks!

[Charles Talbert]

NLGI #2 is the correct product for steering knuckles.

[Matt Wilson]

NLGI #2 is the correct product for steering knuckles.

I wasn't sure since the WWII manuals call for Grade 1 or 0. One manual is for a 3/4-ton truck, and the other is for a 1-1/2 ton 6 x 6 truck. The 1949 Dodge manual just states "semi-fluid grease." Sounds like you and Gordon have had good experience with the commonly available Grade 2, though.

[Gordon Maney]

I did go out to my shop to examine some tubes of chassis grease on the shelf. I have a variety of kinds, as sometimes I buy something new to see what it is like.

Some were marked NLGI 2, some were marked NLGI, some said nothing, and the tube from Tractor Supply [TSC] said secret formula. Really, it said that. I thought that was hilarious.

Also, for your interest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NLGI_Grade

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/...ease-selection

http://www.greasedispensing.com/ref-viscosity.html

[W_A_Watson_II]

However, when I look at my manual for my '49 Power Wagon, it says to use "semi-fluid" grease.

To me that sounds like "Corn Head Grease" (Polyurea #0 EP Grease). Although in my M I used a name brand high temp Disc Brake Wheel Bearing Grease, in the '49 that's still undergoing "the brake job" I used Corn Head Grease.

Corn Head Grease is a high quality multipurpose, semi-fluid type grease available in an NLGI #0 grade. Although primarily applied in corn head lubrication, this product can be recommended for many applications in agriculture, automotive, construction and industrial environments.

[Charles Talbert]

Look at the BIG picture in this century

In our summer temps here, NLGI#2 will bleed past the felt seals to some degree, semi-fluid greases will simply not stay there to do the intended job like they need too. The sealing technology used was not of that design. The worst issue I've seen about using them in knuckles is the fact that they do bleed past the seals to such a degree that most operators feel the need to keep pumping it in to the point of either blowing the inner axle oil seals or pumping grease back through the wheel bearings into the brake drums. I've seen both happen more than once, causing the need for a total tear down, clean out, and seal replacement, as a result of this very issue alone.

Matt, another thing you need to realize is that in '49 when the manuals you mentioned were printed; products that were available were very different than greases of today. If you were searching solely for a grease today to meet the exact specs they were talking about in that manual, you would likely find that no such product exist because technology has changed lubricants so vastly. If the writters of that manual would have had todays products available then, the lubricant recommendations would have been very different, no doubt. The products that exist today can successfully flow well enough to do the job they were searching for back then, while being full bodied enough to stay on the job and not bleed out in a significant way. I'm not talking about the Wal-Mart special that may barely squeak past the minimal NLGI#2 spec, however we have used several high end NLGI#2 products that have successfully done the job considering both issues. We have seen Royal Purple, Synergen, and Hydrotex greases do the job extremely well to name a few. All meet and exceed the NLGI#2 spec.

[Matt Wilson]

I did go out to my shop to examine some tubes of chassis grease on the shelf. I have a variety of kinds, as sometimes I buy something new to see what it is like.

Some were marked NLGI 2, some were marked NLGI, some said nothing, and the tube from Tractor Supply [TSC] said secret formula. Really, it said that. I thought that was hilarious.

Also, for your interest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NLGI_Grade

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/...ease-selection

http://www.greasedispensing.com/ref-viscosity.html

"Secret Formula?" That is funny. The web links you provided also have a lot of interesting information. I had heard of the food equivalent table provided at wikipedia, but had looked for it. Some are quite humorous, especially the frozen yogurt and the smooth pate.

[Matt Wilson]

In our summer temps here, NLGI#2 will bleed past the felt seals to some degree, semi-fluid greases will simply not stay there to do the intended job like they need too. The sealing technology used was not of that design. The worst issue I've seen about using them in knuckles is the fact that they do bleed past the seals to such a degree that most operators feel the need to keep pumping it in to the point of either blowing the inner axle oil seals or pumping grease back through the wheel bearings into the brake drums. I've seen both happen more than once, causing the need for a total tear down, clean out, and seal replacement, as a result of this very issue alone.

Matt, another thing you need to realize is that in '49 when the manuals you mentioned were printed; products that were available were very different than greases of today. If you were searching solely for a grease today to meet the exact specs they were talking about in that manual, you would likely find that no such product exist because technology has changed lubricants so vastly. If the writters of that manual would have had todays products available then, the lubricant recommendations would have been very different, no doubt. The products that exist today can successfully flow well enough to do the job they were searching for back then, while being full bodied enough to stay on the job and not bleed out in a significant way. I'm not talking about the Wal-Mart special that may barely squeak past the minimal NLGI#2 spec, however we have used several high end NLGI#2 products that have successfully done the job considering both issues. We have seen Royal Purple, Synergen, and Hydrotex greases do the job extremely well to name a few. All meet and exceed the NLGI#2 spec.

Thanks again, Charles. That seems like very good information to me. I do not, unfortunately, have the benefit of knowing what greases were like back then, but if today's greases flow well enough, then that sounds good to me and I will just stick with Grade 2 of a good name brand. I have used moly-fortified grease made by Valvoline, I believe. I have been told that moly is a great lubricant, so I may continue to use that.

[Matt Wilson]

To me that sounds like "Corn Head Grease" (Polyurea #0 EP Grease). Although in my M I used a name brand high temp Disc Brake Wheel Bearing Grease, in the '49 that's still undergoing "the brake job" I used Corn Head Grease.

Corn Head Grease is a high quality multipurpose, semi-fluid type grease available in an NLGI #0 grade. Although primarily applied in corn head lubrication, this product can be recommended for many applications in agriculture, automotive, construction and industrial environments.

I had thought of corn head grease, too, but now after reading the other responses, I think I will continue with NLGI 2. I'll be interested to hear from you how the corn head grease does in this application, though.

[W_A_Watson_II]

The concept behind the Corn Head Grease (semi-fluid grease) is at "room" temperatures it's more of a solid grease, but at "operating/higher" temperatures it's goes into a fluid state.

Apparently the seals on corn head gear boxes were bad about wearing out or based on the application known to not hold in gear box oil well. This grease would allow the area outside the moving components to stay semi-solid, while at the wear location where the movement and heat was, to become oil-like and lubricate the components. The solid-like grease would hold and capture the oil-like grease in place.

Now since the 46 PW brake job isn't yet done the only thing I've noticed is the small amount of liquidity part of the corn head grease has leaked out past the felt seal. When you open a tube to place it in the gun there was a small amount of liquid (oil) in the grease at the end of the tube. This seems to be what has peculated through and leaked out.

Will

[Jerry Henry]

This is how I started to use the now-unavailable (apparently) product I have spoken of. EZ Flow Lithium grease, used to be sold by Cenex stores. This stuff could be used in winch housings, gear boxes, knuckles that leaked regular gear oil. It seems the corn head grease is basically the same thing, only I have never had to buy any, since I still have part of a 5 gal. bucket of the other stuff left.