FFPW PTO Question...

[CSCameron]

I apologize in advance for the lame question, but were the power take offs (PTO) front and rear a standard item on these trucks or were they options? I am researching to buy one and don't want to make the mistake of thinking they all come with PTOs, if they don't.

Obviously, I am new to FFPW and am new to this forum. :) I'm confident I'll have many more questions in the near future.

Thanks for your input.

[Kevin Mienke]

No question is a lame question around here.

The PTO is optional equipment. You will find that many trucks were ordered with the PTO driven winch on the front, but much fewer were ordered with the rear PTO option.

Quite a few have no PTO at all, but the trans has a window to accept one if you want to add it.

Welcome to the forums.

[CSCameron]

Excellent! Thanks for the quick response.

[Kevin Mienke]

You're welcome.

I should be quick to say that there were three different trans used during the production years of the Power Wagon, each using a different PTO. This complicates things if you want to add one. If you want a PTO, it is definitely in your best interest to find a truck that already has one. I think you'll find it's more cost effective and a lot less hassle, all things considered.

Clint Dixon has put together some very good information on the rear PTO set up at http://t137.com/ClintDixon/rearpto.htm

[CSCameron]

So to be sure, all the Braden Winches were PTO driven? Therefore, is it safe to say, if a FFPW has a winch, it has at least a front PTO?

Thanks for the link!

[Kevin Mienke]

Yes sir.

[CSCameron]

Thanks!

[im02crazy]

PTO cross over to tranny listing?

Great thread. You made me realize that my PTO might not fit-up to my tranny! Is there a listing somewhere that shows what PTO mates correctly with what tranny?? Any sites show pics of the various ptos?

I checked the crossover document "glovebox" published on the dodgepowerwagon site, but it didn't give this crossover that I could understand. Thanks.

[Kevin Mienke]

Great thread. You made me realize that my PTO might not fit-up to my tranny! Is there a listing somewhere that shows what PTO mates correctly with what tranny?? Any sites show pics of the various ptos?

I checked the crossover document "glovebox" published on the dodgepowerwagon site, but it didn't give this crossover that I could understand. Thanks.

If you post a picture of your PTO, someone should be able to tell you which trans it will mate to.

All I know is that 3 different PTOs were used. One for the “Up To Type” trans, one for the “After Type” and one for the NP420. The Up To and After were different in that the gear protrusion out of the PTO housing was different by ¼ inch. The NP420 is different in that the gears are helical instead of spur.

You can use an After Type PTO on an Up To Type transmission with a 1/4" spacer, but you can’t use an Up To Type PTO on an After Type transmission. You can use neither of those on an NP420.

The switch over between the Up To and After trans was at the end of the 1950 model year (WDX to B2 models). Models B3 to C3 had the After trans. They went to the NP420 in 1956 (C4 and later models).

On a final note, I’ll say that getting wrong parts can easily happen with our trucks. One of the primary reasons for this is that we have grouped them all into a generalized group called “FFPWs”. We would all be well served to trash the term FFPW.

[Clint Dixon]

If you post a picture of your PTO, someone should be able to tell you which trans it will mate to.

All I know is that 3 different PTOs were used. One for the “Up To Type” trans, one for the “After Type” and one for the NP420. The Up To and After were different in that the gear protrusion out of the PTO housing was different by ¼ inch. The NP420 is different in that the gears are helical instead of spur.

You can use an After Type PTO on an Up To Type transmission with a 1/4" spacer, but you can’t use an Up To Type PTO on an After Type transmission. You can use neither of those on an NP420.

The switch over between the Up To and After trans was at the end of the 1950 model year (WDX to B2 models). Models B3 to C3 had the After trans. They went to the NP420 in 1956 (C4 and later models).

On a final note, I’ll say that getting wrong parts can easily happen with our trucks. One of the primary reasons for this is that we have grouped them all into a generalized group called “FFPWs”. We would all be well served to trash the term FFPW.

Oh Boy! Here we go - stirring up the FFPW hornet's nest again!

You are a brave soul Kevin. And, since your are, and since you brought it up, I just wanted to say I totally agree. I have your back. I am 100% behind you - about 10-feet behind you - running the other direction.... ;^)

[Gordon Maney]

See the name of the forum; 1-ton Power Wagon. The most cumbersome, yet thorough, descriptor I could offer would be 1-ton Power Wagon of the WDX to WM300 model series.

I never say as much about this as I could.

OK, Clint, it's your turn....

[Kevin Mienke]

Oh Boy! Here we go - stirring up the FFPW hornet's nest again!

You are a brave soul Kevin. And, since your are, and since you brought it up, I just wanted to say I totally agree. I have your back. I am 100% behind you - about 10-feet behind you - running the other direction.... ;^)

My original plan was to stir the pot and walk away myself. I bet you already knew that when you decided to hightail it.

Stirring the pot is where the fun is and if you are going to run away and Gordon isn't going to say as much as he could, well then, I'm going to have to rethink my position. Perhaps I'll go to the other side and stir the pot in the other direction. Perhaps I'll use FFPW in at least one sentence everyday until none of us knows what kind of truck we really have and what shape the fenders are.

[CSCameron]

My original plan was to stir the pot and walk away myself. I bet you already knew that when you decided to hightail it.

Stirring the pot is where the fun is and if you are going to run away and Gordon isn't going to say as much as he could, well then, I'm going to have to rethink my position. Perhaps I'll go to the other side and stir the pot in the other direction. Perhaps I'll use FFPW in at least one sentence everyday until none of us knows what kind of truck we really have and what shape the fenders are.

Well, I learn something new every day. Did not know that the acronym FFPW was a no no. I actually thought it was a more accurate term and less confusing than using "Power Wagon" which seems really generic, but what do I know? Anyway, in the future, I will refrain from using FFPW, as hard as it will be. ;)

[Kevin Mienke]

Well, I learn something new every day. Did not know that the acronym FFPW was a no no. I actually thought it was a more accurate term and less confusing than using "Power Wagon" which seems really generic, but what do I know? Anyway, in the future, I will refrain from using FFPW, as hard as it will be. ;)

See. All it took was for me to go to the other side. Already people are jumping ship over here.

It's no big deal CS. The FFPW thing has just been a source of entertainment around here for quite a while. Some people defend it. Some get angry over it. But most of us just have fun with it. If you want to call them flatfenders, that's OK with me. A recent survey showed that most people do. And from now on I'm going to.

[Kevin Mienke]

CS,
It's really not fair to leave you with such a simple explanation. A more detailed explanation would include at least telling you a little bit about the dispute over the actual shape of the fenders. Many of us maintain that the fenders are not flat. That would include those of us who have done extensive bodywork on our fenders trying to get the perfect curvature. For the life of me I can't see the other side of the argument on the actual shape of the fenders.

The other point against FFPW is that you can't go into a parts store and get parts for a Flatfender Power Wagon. It is not in Napa's system...nor O'Reilly's...nor anyone else's. For instance, I get the right parts by saying I have a 1961 WM300. It is simple. Every bit as simple as saying flatfender Power Wagon and I get much more favorable results.

As far as I can tell, the argument In Favor Of FFPW is limited to "It's easier." And I don't really see that either. But I'll keep trying. Clint and Gordon have forced me to a crossroads.