New Engine- Overheating

[im02crazy]

More of the ongoing saga of my 1967 WM300. The new engine overheated and seized up during its initial run. It would idle, but when placed under any load the temperature would shoot up and if continued to run, would boil over.

I had it towed it to another mechanic who has found a number of problems in the way it was re-installed.

Just doing some homework, I came across the list of the top reasons Power Wagons overheat. One is the water distribution tube.

Since this engine was just fully rebuilt, I checked the build progress photos and noticed it appears the tube was not replaced during the rebuild. Additionally, it looks like its crimped somewhat.

The mechanic will pull the water pump and check this next week.

Just wondering: (1) how much of a problem a deformed water dist tube might be causing, and
(2) how hard might this be to remove/replace in the vehicle?

Thoughts? Recommendations? Prayers?

Thanks!

[wayneh]

Are you serious that is siezed up??????

Wow. The water tube is easy to pull, but on my FFPW the hardest part is pulling the radiator and front assembly off since I usually work alone. After you do that, just pull the water pump off and there you go. Not a lot of drama. I imagine without the water distribution tube it will have a real problem. If they did not install it, my guess is they have never worked on one of these engines before. I'm by no means an expert, but I think this is pretty basic stuff.

I have an extra tube laying around if you need one today or tomorrow, but it sounds like you are outsourcing it. VPW of course has them.

Wayne

[wayneh]

The more I think about it, they had to pull the tube. If not, I'll bet money that the old one is plugged up at least for the last two slots.... And yes, that will cause overheating!!!!

Wayne

[Jerry Henry]

There must be some reason why you don't take the engine back to the rebuilder and put the responsibility on him to fix it?

[im02crazy]

Authorized mechanic working on it since it seized up.

Yeah. It's really hard to believe. Luckily it wasn't permanent and has run at the shop where it's being thoroughly reviewed and any defects corrected in the install.

As soon as it overheated to the point of boiling over I had it roll-backed to a local, well known and trusted mechanic who is a Jasper authorized rep.

They were recommended to me by a local Power Wagon collector. Sad part is that had I know he was a Jasper rep in the first place it would not have gone anywhere else. Jasper has agreed to cover the repairs on what he has found deficient and they were clear about stadning behind any problems caused by materials or workmanship defects in the rebuild.

I just got an email from the mechanic who worked on this friday nite til prob midnite the run test is on monday. I have a very clear pic provided by Jasper during the that looks like this tube was crimped over/deformed.

However, I want to make it clear that I don't yet know the present condition of the tube. This will have to wait til he pulls the water pump and inspects it.

As far as I know Jasper could have replaced or corrected the tube before buttoning up. I have no regrets re the rebuild, just my selection of shop to pul and replace.

[wayneh]

When you got it back from Jasper, was the water pump already on it? If it a short block I would think not, and if not, they would have expected the mechanic who put it back in to put the water distribution tube in.

Wayne

[maineSS]

The distribution tube can either be extremely difficult to remove, or very easy- depends on how tight it fits in the block and corrosion (brass is better than steel). You may wish to inquire if the rebuilder actually tried removing it, or simply forgot about it- these tubes were not found in all makes of flathead, and certainly not in more modern engines.

[wayneh]

MaineSS: Good point. I'm talking about the 230 engine, I think he may have the 251. I'm not sure if that engine has a water distribution tube.

Wayne

[Charles Talbert]

Common issue

Go to a shop that has experience with whatever it is you are working on. Just because Jasper is a rebuilder doesn't mean they have any significant experience with this particular engine, especially since it is a vintage engine that they likely see very fee of any more if ever. If they do repairs now after the fact, what will they do about any damage caused by the overheating seizure? If it seized, you can bet there is resultant damage.

Honestly, I had my doubtrs about your guy when he couldn't figure out how to pull the engine as I recall, so hearing of these issues now really isn't any surprise at all.

[im02crazy]

Dazed and Confused

Yes Charles, you were right on the money. My doubts increased X10 when he asked me the firing order. After I determined he was not kidding, I suggested that he check the top of the head where they are stamped.

It went down hill from there. I've provided the other mechanic's findings to Jasper for their records, and to my credit card company for a claim against his fee for faulty workmanship.

It's running now, but I have not road tested it yet. Will do this next week and hope for the best.

[Charles Talbert]

Yes Charles, you were right on the money. My doubts increased X10 when he asked me the firing order. After I determined he was not kidding, I suggested that he check the top of the head where they are stamped.

It went down hill from there. I've provided the other mechanic's findings to Jasper for their records, and to my credit card company for a claim against his fee for faulty workmanship.

It's running now, but I have not road tested it yet. Will do this next week and hope for the best.

I'd insist on an accurate damage report from the seizure; although getting 1 will be a LLLLLLLLLLong shot. It is never good news when that happens. This end result is the exact reason why we do all our builds in house to include a run in on our test stand, it is the only way to know 100% what went on and why. In any situation where the builder is sending it out to someone else to finish the job is most often a he said, he said, situation when a problem arises. It is simply a convenient way to say HE caused the problem.

[Ggg6]

Any updates on this saga?

[im02crazy]

Up and running well-The unit runs flawlessly.

The unit is up and working well. Jasper paid just a hint over 65% of the total cost (P&L) of replacing the defective head gasket. The difference was between their standard labor rate and my mechanic's rate $25/hr difference) and they would only pay for either oil or coolant.

They did not dispute my mechanic's time for assessment, repair and reporting. My guy did a VERY thorough job, and assured everything was correct before sending me out on the road.

A number of people have asked me for info on my mechanic. I would love to provide his link, but he's asked me to hold-off because he cannot take on another customer right now. It's not unusual to find him or one of his three other mechanics in the shop at 10-11 at night..they work two shifts to keep up with the work.

I REALLY wished I had him do the original pull and replace, but live and learn.

Please check out the updates on our website www.flyingtigertransport.com There's a lot of good information and interesting pictures and video link to the SECOND first drive.