Budd Wheel Torque

[texcwa]

Having a problem finding the proper torque for the Budd wheels on my 1949 B-1-PW. Did a search on past threads but could not find. Blew out my impact driver undoing all those bolts for front frame extensions, PTO winch and fenders so need to buy a new one, just want to make sure of wheel torque before I buy.

Thanks

[truckdog62563]

I answered on your other posting, but in short the manufacturers recommend 450-500 pounds of dry torque on our "stud piloted" lug nuts. Keep in mind you have both left hand and right hand threads. Stu

[wayneh]

and you probably already know this.... but the ones on the left side are left hand threads.... turn clockwise to take off.

Wayne

[truckdog62563]

Right. You'll also see an "L" or an "R" on the ends of the studs. Sometimes the nuts are marked as well. Stu

[texcwa]

Why the L & R threads?, are the R threads on left side & L on right side of truck?. Just asking in case the identification marks are gone or hard to read. Looks like I will be using a 4 ft breaker bar to break them loose and having the tire shop re torque when installing.

Thanks for the info.

[gmharris]

Left and right threads was a Chrysler thing. Supposedly, the left hand threads kept the lug nuts from loosening. Or, was that just a myth and Chrysler did it for some other reason? Either way, I don't know of anybody else that did it, even Chrysler stopping doing it a long time ago.

I don't think tightening torque is so critical that you need to take it to a tire shop. I don't think the wheels coming loose is much of a problem. Just tighten them good and tight without overdoing it. If you are using the appropriate size tools, that shouldn't be a problem.

A truck-sized tire iron is a good thing to have. They shouldn't be expensive used.

I also have a 3/4" impact wrench, but most likely you won't use one enough to make it worth the expense.

[truckdog62563]

The left and right hand thread idea was not a Chrysler thing, it was a Budd thing. Starting in the late 1920s the Budd Company pioneered its inner and outer dual cap nut system on all big truck applications. Also called "stud piloted" or "ball seat". The system used left hand threaded studs/nuts on the vehicle left side and right hand threaded studs/nuts on the right side. The Budd design was used by Dodge, Ford, IHC, Studebaker, and others. Chevy/GMC, on the other hand, were the near exclusive early user of the Motor Wheel Corporation "hub piloted" system. The earliest record I have of this is a 1942 MW catalog. This system uses a single lug nut, all right hand threads, and relies on the hub to locate the wheels. The advantage here is fewer parts, i.e. no inner and outer nuts. In recent years all manufacturers have come to adapt this sytem but many still use that original Budd design. Stu

[wayneh]

Tex:

I'm reading all this sort of smiling... I got my first PW about this time last year. First things first and change out the brake cylinders. An hour into the project and I was still fighting the first lug nut... Then I figured our the right side left side thing, put down my four foot breaker bar (which did not break the studs with me standing on it...) and got on with the project... You certainly don't need a shop to re-torque them.

So... Did you get them off yet?

Wayne

[gmharris]

"The left and right hand thread idea was not a Chrysler thing, it was a Budd thing".


I call left hand threads a "Chrysler thing" because they used them on their vehicles into the '70's. I doubt Budd invented left hand threads (on vehicles or anywhere else). I'll surmise that in the early days of threaded products (the Roman era) there were as many left-handed threads as right-handed.

By the way, the phenomena that causes nuts to loosen on the left side of vehicles is called, "fretting induced precession".

[truckdog62563]

I've read that a 200 pound guy on a 3' cheater is a good home remedy. There's also a tool called a pork chop that you'll want to pick up at your local farm store. Use of it with a BFH will get the nuts to move very nicely. Stu

[texcwa]

Have not tried to remove them yet. Last weekend was spent breaking the truck down. Got the cab off, winch and front extension off, all running gear out (engine, trans, transfer case). Just ordered all the new parts for front and rear bearing, seals, brakes ect and will be attempting to remove wheels, brakes ect in the following weekends. Thanks for all the comments, I know now about the L & R thing and that I need a big breaker bar to bust the lugs loose.

[truckdog62563]

IMHO the cheater works best for mounting wheels. The pork chop and BFH are the tools of choice for removal. At least they were for me before I bought my 1" arbor Chicago Pneumatic gun. Stu

[PWFFnut]

Releaseing lug nuts for the first time

I bought My 1956 PW in 1987 when I was 17. My dad & his friend had to use a 3/4inch T bar with pipes on it. long time ago cant tell you how long they were 3 maybe 4 feet. while I hit it with a sledge hammer when they let go it sounded like a rifle shot.

[texcwa]

Thanks all, busted my 1/2" drive breaker bar with 4' piece of black iron pipe so went with a 3/4" drive breaker bar and pipe, no problem. Now have my tire iron but will cut the pipe down to 3' for install and removal in future.

[John Waak]

I don't doubt the Budd Wheel manufacturer's recommended torque of 450--500 foot pounds dry, but man, that strikes me as crazy tight.

TM9-8030 specifies 200--225 foot pounds for the lug nuts. That seems more reasonable to me.

Under-tightening the lug nuts can lead to wallowing out the lug nut seats in the wheel, but at 500 foot pounds I would be wary of weakening the threads. Even more, If I had to change a tire off road and the nuts were tightened to the Budd recommendation, I don't know how I would ever get the nuts loose. One thing's for sure, the little lug nut handle that came with the truck would never cut it.