Winch Cable questions

[53Crusher]

I've decided to add an MU-2 winch to my 53 PW, which now means my grandkids will have to get scholarships in order to attend college :-) Had I realized what this would cost, I'm not sure I would have gone down this road. The MU-2 I found looked really good until I took it apart. At this point, I've replaced everything but the casing. Anyway, that's another story....

I've been considering the best way to attach the 7/16" wire cable to the drum and am looking for opinions and help! My question is two part. What is the best way to attach the cable to the drum, and then how do we attach the chain to the cable. All opinions and thoughts are welcome!

The drum that came with my winch had really bad dog ears where the clutch would engage, so I found another one. Second picture shows how the new drum I found has two holes to use a "U-bolt" to attach the cable and the original one doesn't. In the first picture you can barely see how both drums have a casting that would allow us to put the cable into and then make use of a set screw to hold it in place? The new drum I received has two holes to allow the use of a "U-bolt" to hold the cable.

First question... What is the best way to attach the wire to the drum?
Third picture shows an original thimble with some sort of compression swedge? In a perfect world, I'd like to get one of these, but don't even know what they are called. I have three cable clamps, but like this setup better. I've seen people use cable clamps or a cable clevis but would like to get one of these. What are they called and are they still available?

Please let me know how you have attached the wire to your drum, and then attached it to the chain.

Thanks!

[wayneh]

Tim: I've done some cable rigging in my life, so what I will tell you is for rigging radio towers and steel erectors. The same would apply to our winchs.

The "cable clamps" are the U bolts with a saddle that has two nuts to secure the cable to itself after you loop it around a thimble or something. If you go that route, you can get Chinese ones made from home depot, but if you are doing work where a life depends on it use "crosby clips". If you search for crosby clips on ebay you will see them. They have to be torqued correctly, re-torqued after the cable stretches (gets used), and you have to use the right number of them. On 7/16" wire you need two of them and they get torqued to 65 foot pounds. Most important though for the clamps is that the U bolt end is on the "dead" end, or the end without the load. This link shows a good picture.

The other method you can't buy from home depot but is how tower riggers and boat people do it is with "nicopress" clips. There is a hydraulic tool to crimp them onto the wire for 7/16" wire.

You also may need or want to use a "shackle". That normally has a bolt in it and will connect a chain to a cable, two chains, etc.

The crosby parts, which you can depend on with your life, have red "U" bolts and are hot dip galvanized. They are drop forged like a good tool. They don't rust. Same with the shackles.

Hope this helps.

Wayne

[Clint Dixon]

That old wire rope clamp is called the Safe-Line Clamp. It was patented in 1940 by Clarence C. Gallagher of Detroit, Michigan. You can view the patent here:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/2225169.pdf

Attached is a scanned image of small section taken from a large wall poster/sales brochure that I have on the Safe-Line clamp. These clamps were manufactured by the National Production Company of Detroit, Michigan. I assume Mr. Gallagher was somehow affiliated with the company.

I believe these to be the "correct" wire rope clamp for early Power-Wagons. I do not know if every winch equipped truck used one, or for how long a period of time they were used. But, they are commonly seen in period photos of early Power-Wagons. Why so few are found today is anyone's guess. I suspect that owners did know know the correct way to install them, and when a wire rope wore out or was shortened, conventional u-bolt clamps were used in there place.

The clamps consist of two halves that press tightly against the rope with large spiral grooves pocketing the rope strands. Each groove is coined with smaller grooves that pocket each strand wire. The two halves have tapered threads on each end. The nuts have corresponding tapered threads, and as they are tightened, they compress the halves together tightly against the wire rope.

I have seen the correct 7/16 inch size Safe-Line clamps, but I have never found one for my own use. I currently am using 1/2 inch size Safe-Line clamps on my 7/16 wire ropes. They are very hard to clamp down. It takes a large bench vice and 24-inch pipe wrenches to thread the nuts down. I believe the correct 7/16 size would be next to impossible to install. In any case, I always weave my wire ropes into a Flemish Eye before installing the clamps. The Flemish Eye is doing the majority of the work at holding the rope tight to the thimble. By using this method, the Safe-Line clamp is covering and protecting the loose rope end and is not being completely relied upon for structural integrity of the assembly.

Modern Safe-Line clamps are available in 1/2 inch size, but these are simplified in that they are shorter and use only one nut. These are available through McMaster Carr and most rigging and slinging companies.

[Clint Dixon]

Safe-Line

Another scan from the poster.

[Clint Dixon]

Safe-Line

One more scan.

[wayneh]

Clint:

Those are definately very awesome! I is amazing the amount of thought that went into those 60 years ago. I'd be afraid to use any of the Chinese box store clamps today, with the exception being if you never intended to use the winch.

Wayne

[Matthew Ziegler]

cable clamps

Check out A W Direct, I have an old catalogue somewhere, they sell just about anything for towtrucks, should have a good selection of cable clamps, hooks etc. The thing I like is they tell you when an item is imported or made here.

[53Crusher]

wire cable

Wow! Great stuff. Love the old scanned images and it really helps me to understand how the Safe-line system works. Thank you!

Still a bit mystified on the best way to attach the cable to our drums. From the ones I've seen, it looks like there are several types. The one I plan on using has the two holes in the side to facilitate a "U-bolt", but it also has this casting. Looks like the wire goes inside with a set screw to hold it, but am wondering if the cable should have some sort of end on it.... Hole is larger than our 7/16" wire and set screw doesn't seem like it would be stout enough to attach the wire. Here is a closer picture of the drum. What are you guys doing on this end?

Thanks again for all the info. Don't know what I would do without all the experts here!

[Jerry Henry]

Tim. You should always have a couple of full wraps of cable on the drum when using it to pull. In that way, there will really be no strain on the end fastener, whether you use the set screw type or the u-bolt type.. JH

[Gordon Maney]

Good job, gentlemen.

[Jerry Henry]

Who you calling gentlemen???


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[53Crusher]

Thanks!

Thanks again to everyone for your detailed responses - I really appreciate it!

[Gordon Maney]

I always admire Clint's studious responses. He is a great historian.

[Doc Dave]

Tim,
What I did on mine is feed the end into the socket and use a screw. Then I took up one layer of wire rope on the drum and marked it, then unrolled it and painted it red. That way when I used the winch I could easily see when I was getting "close". I got that idea from Paul M in N.Y.

For the clamp, I wanted a vintage look so I used a safety type clamp like Clint describes. I am using the 7/16" wire rope, and a 1/2" clamp that I got from Sam Winer Motors in Ohio. They have a lot of military surplus and this is what the clamp was.

I got a rigging book to learn how to do a Flemish Eye, and that is what I did, as well as weaving in a little more single strand around the wire mass. Then I tightened the clamp down. Following Clint's advice, I used a 24" pipe wrench I bought on Ebay and my vice.

The end result was very good. I used the winch several times, including winching out some big poplar logs from a creek bottom, with no sign of slippage.

I know the Crosby Clamps are good, like Wayne said, but again I wanted a vintage look.

I have some pics somewhere I will try to post.

[Jerry Henry]

I always admire Clint's studious responses. He is a great historian.

You are right. He is a real asset to the Power Wagon world.