Here we go again...headgasket #2

[im02crazy]

I have a similar problem that Mauricedocton describes in the thread "Engine Advice"

History is a failed head gasket right out of the crate on a Jasper rebuild. Immediately overheated and had steam out the tail pipe, and water in the oil pan.

This was linked to a damaged head gasket during the rebuild. My local mechanic replaced it under Jasper warranty. Now less than 100 miles later I've blown another head gasket.

I'm open for ideas on what might have happened. What I do know is that the head was not re-torqued after the fix last year, but again, less than 100 miles on the re-build.

I had no indication of a problem until I lost power (like a missing cylinder) and pulled over. Again, no water in the radiator, but this time no steam out the tail pipe. Lots of coolant in the oil pan however.

Pics show what we found. Thoughts??

[Cheyenne Dave]

I would suggest that the head may not have been trued. It is also possible that the top of the block was not flat and true. Either or both of the conditions can lead to head gasket failure. Old head bolts can also lead to inconsistent torque values, which can further aggravate the situation.

If you really want to be thorough, look for a crack between cylinders, right over the gasket failure.

CD

[gmharris]

Following up on Cheyenne Dave's comments, get a machinist's straight edge and check head and block with a feeler gauge, or take them to a machinist.

[Doc Dave]

Following up on the other's comments, I had my '52 engine rebuilt here in Maryland by a small shop in 2006. At that time the machinist checked my head and found that it was slightly warped. He trued the head, and also made sure the top of the block was flat.
When I installed the head gasket, we used the (Napa) "Indian chief" copper head gasket varnish on the gasket surfaces.
I have run the engine now for 7 years, and even though not a lot of miles, there have been no head gasket issues.
I may be jinxing myself my saying this, but very satisfied with the rebuild.

[oldmopar]

It should be retorqued after the 1st ride when still hot.

[Gordon Maney]

In my lifetime I have an installed over a large number of head gaskets, installed as full rebuilds or head gasket replacements.

In a certain number of instances I have used copper-coat type spray gasket sealers. I think spray like that is a fine idea, although in the vast majority of instances I have not used it.

I know about the need for re-torque after first run. I think it's a great idea and it is rooted in some very sound thinking. As I strain to remember I think I might've done that once, but I am not sure.

Deck surface and had surface inspection and evaluation are critical. There must be no damage to the surface and the surface must be flat. When necessary, castings should be surface ground as required.

I have had one engine fail, although it turned out to not be the head gasket. It was a 230 cubic inch Chevrolet six-cylinder that was getting oil in the cooling system. It made the coolant look like gray, soft-serve ice cream. It turned out on a cylinder had a crack in the wall. I repaired it with a sleeve.

In summary, I cannot emphasize enough the evaluation of the block deck and head service for finish and flatness. Of course a proper torque spec should be observed and if proper torque specification used to tighten the bolts.

I have not found that a sealer or a re-torque are important. I do not say this to discredit those ideas. I say it to emphasize the most critical aspects.

[im02crazy]

Good advice taken

Thanks for the good suggestions. Because it's under warranty my local mechanic (who is a young guy but very thorough) is working with Jasper to solve this.

They are (1) checking the deck and head,
(2) machining if needed, and I have a head standing by out in the parts yard (www.flyingtigertransport.com).

Totally agree on
(3) the re-torquing as a good practice, and would have done this at about 100 miles- which it never got to yet!

Better idea as provided above was to torque this after first hot drive. I should have thought of that. I did talk to Jasper about this and they did tell Mike (One Fine Wrench, Inc.) to do that.

I asked Mike and Jasper to find the best spec gasket, and
(4) also to use new head bolts.

As always I really appreciate the years of guidance here (have we ever added them up??)

Thanks
Dave in Baltimore, Maryland US of A

[wayneh]

did they/you use thread sealer in the head bolts that go into the block? Is there evidence of thread sealer on the bolts you pulled? I did my head gasket last year. Never re-torqued it and has not leaked since. I did have the machine shop resurface the head before I installed it. I have to believe Jasper did so, they are not that bad!

Also, how did all that water and rust get into the head? I drain my block/rad first and when I take the head off it is pretty much dry.

Wayne

[Charles Talbert]

The bottom line findings as to the cause of this will be interesting.

Rebuilders like Jasper have never impressed me, I was not impressed by the things they told you during initial conversations that you posted here. Now I'm reading about issues that were of concern to me at that time. These big box rebuilders pay precious little attention to detail; it goes down the line with more of a 1 size fits all approach. Have you asked them about the possibilities Dave mentioned? Do they even care? After all it looks like they never planned to touch it again anyway. I imagine they have been given what they dreamed of since an outside agent has gotten the chore of doing repairs on their failure, they now have an out. "It's the other guy's fault."