Feel like I was just "violated" by the motor shop

[Frank Irons]

Bolts and nuts.

Frank

[Tom Petroff]

Bolts and nuts.

Frank

Special Bolts and Nuts!

Tom

[Clint Dixon]

Getting a bad feeling here.

So now he has two irate customers? You got their flywheel and they got yours, but he can't fix the mistake without ordering new parts?

I don't want to make things worse, but I am having bad feelings about this whole deal.

Is your engine a T137, or is it another Chrysler engine? The reason I ask is that I believe (someone please correct me if I am wrong) that some other Chrysler engines used 6-bolt cranks. Could it be possible (if your engine is not a T137) that you actually got the correct flywheel but the wrong crank back? What makes me wonder is that the timing marks should never be 180 degrees off in my opinion. If they are, then your #6 piston is not on the compression stroke, but is on the exhaust stoke instead. Top-Dead-Center is only half the equation. I think (again someone correct me if I am wrong) that correct timing sprockets could be put on a wrong crank and that could cause the marks end up 180 degrees off. Switching around plug wires to change the firing order would be way of "fixing" it that only you would know - not the next owner. The missing pilot bushing is another thing that makes me question the crank.

So this begs another question. If you possibly got a wrong crank, how does the length of stroke compare to what your engine is supposed to have?

Thanks for sharing the name of the builder. I did not expect you to do that publicly and would have understood if you had used my email that I provided.

[Ammo]

Yes it's a T137. Here's a pic before it got molested. LOL.



Went and picked up the NOS flywheel (again) that he ordered for me; looks much better now. He had the old one (I returned) and the new one on a table when I got there. The two flywheels are VERY similar after seeing them side-by-side. Maybe the guy didnt mix them up after all. I wonder if someone could have put the 6 bolt flywheel (out of a 318) on out of necessity. It may fit the 8 bolt 230 crank if the bolt and holes are precisely aligned. Looks like there's a fairly new clutch disc and basket also. Regardless, this wouldnt be an issue if he simply bagged and tagged all his parts.

[DrPepper]

Couple of things about crank flanges

...I'm pretty sure they are not a hole every 60 degrees. At least two of the holes are staggered to ensure the flywheel is installed in the same position each time. I believe this is done when a complete engine balancing is done. The crank is balanced with the piston/rod/ring weights matching each cylinder and harmonic balancer are installed. Look at the bottom 3 flange hole spacing, in pix in post #20.

As far as the crank and cam they are 180 out every other turn of the crank, if it's wrong ... turn the crank over one turn. The difference is timing position of the distributor. The engine is set up at TDC #1 cyl so when the distributor is installed it is positioned correctly. Many engines (ie 318's) that use a cam gear and stub shaft for the oil pump have an offset tang on the distributor. Everything has to line up or the distributor won't drop down into the gear. More of a problem would be if the crank is aligned ~15* off TDC.
Cam mfg's make offset keys for cam sprockets (see Summit Racing, etc) so if you want to "dial in" the cam you can get about 5 degrees(?) advance or retarded.
DrPepper

[Ammo]

Finally had time to get everything put back together and try to fire it. Would have done it sooner but had radiator problems. Same shop services radiators so I had my radiator and heater core hot tanked and pressure tested-- everything was fine. Fast forward to September when I put my radiator on and started filling it. Yup, it was ****ing water from two different places. I called him and he said I must have caused the damage. I said the radiator has been in a box since the day i got it back from him. I took it over and he confirmed I didnt cause damage. He said the tubes are rotten and he wouldnt have believed it if he didnt clean and pressure check it himself. Long story short, he has my radiator and I pulled another radiator from my 56 that I know is good. Still waiting for him to fix the original.

I static timed the motor and tried firing it up. It popped, snorted, and backfired through the carb but acted like it wanted to go. Figured I messed something up so I read up some more on static timing. This time I put a tissue over the small plug near #6 cylinder and cranked until I was on compression stroke. Took off distributor cap and noticed rotor was 180 off. Corrected that went to fire again, this time it didnt want to do anything. Checked spark on all 6 plug wires and verified there was spark (kind of weak in my opinion). So now I wonder if I was correct the first time and it didnt fire because I was having carb issues (fuel running out the float bowl) and forgot to seal off the vacuum lines. Perhaps the cam/crank alignment deal from earlier is messing me up. The carb has been rebuilt by VPW and all vacuum lines sealed. Should I intentionally put it 180 degrees out and try firing it again?

I'm running electronic ignition (pertronix igniter # 1564 and flame thrower 3.0 ohm coil # 40511)

I'm learning a lot and have mostly had fun building this truck but **** it can get frustrating at times.

[DrPepper]

couple of thoughts...

I find it odd you used some plug near #6 cylinder to set timing? Ignition timing on every engine I have ever touched was set to #1. Maybe I will learn something new.

If the spark plug hole is over the piston, a thin dowel or welding rod will give a very accurate indication of piston position.
Remove the front valve spring cover (if you can) and watch the intake valve close on compression. That will be TDC cylinder #1.
Not sure if you can rotate the distributor body to make/break the "electronic points" to set the point of firing? That usually will get it running.

Or, if the timing chain is installed correctly there should be compression, take a compression test and confirm?

I just went thru this with my 1987-318 and the ground needed attention. Once fixed it started in half a turn.

Just realized we are almost neighbors.
DrPepper

[Ammo]

Its my understanding you cant touch the pistons (on any cylinder) with a thin wire on these flatheads. There is a small plug that allows access to cylinder 6. Pistons 1 and 6 both reach TDC at the same time but one is on the compression stroke and other is on the exhaust. That's my understanding.

I have good compression and oil pressure. I used a circuit tester light, attached to the #1 plug wire, and slowly rotated distributor until it flashed. I cinched everything down and went from there.

The only ground I have is from battery to a bolt on the cylinder head. Do you think thats adequate?

[Bruce in BC]

try this

Pull the plug on the number one piston.
Turn the engine over by hand with your finger over the hole and feel for the compression.
Now look where the rotor is pointing.

This is just a start, there are ways to get things set up so the timing is pretty much dead on, but if you know that you are on the compression stroke and close to TDC you have a place to start from.

[Ammo]

Today I verified #1 cylinder was at TDC on the compression stroke. I then checked rotor was pointing to #1 plug. I then attached a test light to #1 plug wire end, energized system, rotated rotor until electronic ignition sparked the light, then locked everything down. Finally, I hooked up the fuel pressure gauge and measured 3 psi at carb. Tried starting engine and it almost went!

I then pulled all the plugs and they were wet. I'm running NGK BR6S gapped at .050 (someone said to run that gap with electronic ignition). I re-gapped the plugs to .035 since the motor didnt start. I also checked compression:
#1- 152 psi
#2- 148 psi
#3- 150 psi
#4- 145 psi
#5- 145 psi
#6- 130 psi (why that much lower than others?)

Tried starting again with no luck. It just doesnt seem like there is a strong spark. I've been searching for the correct gap for pertronix igniter but am coming up blank. I believe matchbook thickness is what I heard for regular points but not sure on the electronic ignition. It's definitely larger than matchbook thickness. There is a strong smell of unburned gas after starting so I really think there has to be a spark issue.

Here is a link to a video I made of the last attempt at starting it tonight: https://youtu.be/djQMIFyIWfo

Any thoughts?

[W_A_Watson_II]

If the spark is week, and the plugs are wet with fuel probably a week coil? Have you tried hitting it with either again now that the timing is right/close?

[Charles Talbert]

Appears you have the M37 flywheel

And the saga continues...

Went to put on the flywheel this afternoon and the holes dont line up. Not to mention I'm two stud bolts short. I just want to double check this is not a Power wagon flywheel before I head to the motor shop tomorrow.

Thank you Joemcc for validating the timing.

Flywheels on the T-245 engine used in the M37 military Dodge are a 6 hole flywheel. The crank flange has 8 holes just like the T-137. The flywheel only mounts in the 1 certain position in either engine, so the two extra holes are not used in the M37 application. As long as the ring gear diameter and tooth count matches your application, flywheels will interchange without issue. I have seen many that had flywheels from one used on the other, no it isn't correct, but typically doesn't cause a problem.

[defdes]

Have you put a spare plug on one wire to watch the spark?
I have run EI and Pertronix and .050 is a bit much IMO.
I know there is not much to wiring up the Pertronix, but are you sure it's all tight and correct?
You could have a bad coil out of the box.

[Bruce in BC]

One more time with a difference

Bring #1 up to TDC on the compression stroke - use the finger method again

Now look at your timing marks at the crank pulley is it correct? If not get the timing marks to line up - BTDC or ATDC whatever the engine calls for.

Now pull the cap and check that the rotor is aimed at the #1 high tension lead.

Double check the rotation and firing order

Is the right pole on the coil connected to the distributer?

Do you still have a condenser under the cap? I have gone through 3 duds on one engine and it was the fourth that got me a sweet spark - THAT issue drove me nuts trying to trace down.

If you think the cylinders are dry - oil them before going to the next step

Put a timing light on the # one high tension lead and see if it lights up( when you crank it over) - if it does not fire, pull a plug , turn the lights out in the shop and double check if you have spark at the plug.

This may not help much but somewhere in the process you will get an idea of what is set up correctly and start to look elsewhere.

.035 should be a decent starting point for a gap.

compression - on a fresh motor there is a chance some rings will seat quicker than others......oil , fuel, ring seating are a few factors that will create different compression numbers.....valve seats and combustion chamber size differences have an effect too.

[Ammo]

Thanks for the advice everyone. Finally got it running! Replaced distributor cap and rotor. Also had to rotate the distributor until I found a happy median between stalling out and fire blowing out the carb. Going to put the timing light on it tomorrow and run it at approx 2000 rpm for 20 min to break in the rings. That's what the motor builder suggested along with lugging the engine for a couple heat cycles. Cant perform that step because I have no brakes yet.