47 tear down

[mengelstad]

i have most all of the 80's PWA and a few of them listed frame measurements when i had the frame completely bare i did measure everything and found that it had a slight bow but no tears or twists. I then took it over to a friends body shop and they pulled the bow out of it and i would guess at this point in time it is probably as close to factory measurements as it ever was.

[mengelstad]

i made some progress this last weekend i have a rolling chassis again. The frame was in much better shape than i thought it would be. i separated the double frame and removed all the the brackets so i could sandblast all surfaces then powdered everything before baking and reassembly. my daughter keeps telling me it looks so shiny and i need to put it back together. Also on a side note when blasting brackets i found out that i have bronze transfer case brackets. after blasting they are getting coated with clear powder. waiting on winch parts to put that back together hoping to button that up soon. frame1.jpg

[Matthew Welcher PWA]

It is a great feeling to have a rolling chassis again, you can stand back at that point, study it and mentally start bolting it back together. You have a truck again. Looks great

[mengelstad]

This week end i was cleaning up my yard and preparing to haul out scrap and i got to thinking if there is anyone in the midwest near se south dakota that is in need of backing plates or any front axle parts minus the shafts let me know. also have a brake and clutch pedal set up that appears to be the same as the ones from my 47. and no i was not going to scrap my spare parts but some of this stuff i just can't see ever using/needing so if someone else can put them to use let me know. i also have 5 or 6 drums that i am going to check size there are a couple that appear to have very little wear.

[Matthew Welcher PWA]

Feel free to put the list of parts on the add section and I will share it also on social media. It sounds like you are prepping for a winter of truck work.

[mengelstad]

i will put a list together one of these days when i get a chance. i want to check the drums for size to see if they are usable then go thru spare parts pile. it is amazing some of the things i accumulated in anticipation of building this truck. Some of the parts were in worse shape than the stuff i took off the they truck. Unfortunately winter time is time for house projects so as soon as the weather turns colder i will concentrate on home remodel projects. The truck will be inside the garage so i will tinker some but that is kinda the trade off i have with my wife.

[mengelstad]

I am debating installing a 4cyl cummins in to my truck to make it more useable (yes i know not very original) anyway has anyone used a zf5 transmission out of a ford pickup? i know the most common route seems to be a nv4500 but i want to be at least a little different and to be perfectly honest i found a donor chassis that has the engine transmission already in it. Anyway just curious what everyone's thoughts are pros/cons of this setup

[Desoto61]

Only reason to go with the 4500 is that it's what Dodge used behind the 6BT so it's easier to find, bolts right up, and is more than strong enough to support the smaller engine. The adapter plates for these engines to go to other transmissions can be hard to find and/or expensive. The NV4500 also has the lowest overdrive ratio which is vital for making the diesel work with the stock axles.

This got long but the summary is: if this is to be a truck you drive regularly I'd either skip the diesel or go big $$$$ and get one of the newer common-rail motors, and if you do decide to run a diesel on stock axles order a set of the VPW 4.30:1 ring and pinion sets right now if you still can.

Having a 4BT I'm not sure if I'd do it again. They are loud and vibrate like crazy, the parts are expensive and not as readily available, and the limited RPM range means getting the right gearing is vital to having a drive-able truck. The newer common rail engines like Alex is using are quieter and smoother, but even more money and complexity. Don't get me wrong, they're tough motors and if you plan to work the truck are one of the few motors that can probably outlast even these trucks, but if you plan on mostly driving around town or road trips the livability gets old quick.

The biggest issue as I said though is the axle gearing vs RPM range, with a stock 2300 RPM governor (so you only have about 1000 rpm to play with), a 0.69:1 overdrive, and the 4.88:1 axles on 35" tires I'd max out around 70, but that's on the governor which is about 400-500 rpm over ideal, I tend to drive about 60 on the highway which is right around 2000 rpm, but that still puts me firmly in the slow lane. Around town anything over 45 mph and I'm in overdrive. Now if I had a gas motor, 2100-2300 RPM is probably about perfect for highway cruising and would put you right at 65-70 with room to rev if you needed too.

The 4.30:1 gearing VPW had made would probably be perfect, but it wasn't available when I built my axles and I just can't justify spending the $$$ to rebuild both axles right now, assuming they even keep making them. I'll eventually go with 37" tires but that's not going to get me much improvement overall.

The other big problem I still have to deal with is axle clearance, the 4BT is TALL, and even after two rounds of trying to clearance the oil pan it still hits the front axle under the right circumstances. I need to do a round three, but may need to see about having an extra spring added to the front axle to help keep the two from touching under heavier bumps.

Honestly if I were doing it again today I'd be seriously tempted to put in the old Dodge 3.9 V6. They were low revving but made good low end torque, they're cheap and easily upgraded with V-8 parts for even better power and durability, plus they'd easily fit in the smaller engine bays of these trucks. Plus they'd still be something different, though most will probably wonder why you didn't go for the V8, and honestly the fuel injection stuff on the manual trucks especially in the ODB-1 era was simple and pretty robust, but the aftermarket FI stuff is really good and getting much more reasonable any more. You'd have a quiet, smooth, reliable engine with easy parts availability, you'd probably loose a little torque compared to a 4BT but have more HP and RPM which works better with the gearing of these trucks.

[Stab]

Desoto61, I'm fully aware of the cons of the 4bt. Just curious if you are using a fluid damper or any other damper for the vibration other than stock? I'm 40 years Diesel tech and have repowered several trucks with the 6bt. I'm committed to repower with the p-pumped 4bt, NV4500 & 4;30 gearing in my PW. Also would you do the ARB lockers again?

[Desoto61]

Other than using the heavy Cummins-GM flywheel and the Dodge 6BT rubber mounts I do not have any other damping on the engine. I think that a more careful design of the motor mounts might have helped most, but there is only so much you can do given these were industrial engines and NVH was a secondary consideration. Honestly the biggest problem is gearing. With such a short RPM range and such tall gears in the differentials even the NV4500 OD makes 65 mph a stretch. I wish the 4.30 gears had been available when I did mine, they would be much better option than the 4.88s.

For me probably not, unfortunately I don't have easy access to an off-road area to use 4WD let alone the locker, so other than the occasional snowstorm (which is rare in southern VA), I almost never get to use it, and even then between the KO2 tires and all the weight of my bed the truck is really good in the snow without any traction aids. It's a nice piece of equipment, and makes rebuilding the differentials easier, but for the money you better plan on off-roading fairly frequently unless you just like the bragging rights.

[mengelstad]

So far i have replaced the rotten floor pan and i am planning on finishing up the cab work this winter. Is there any way someone could post pictures of the linkage that operates the cowl vent? or if someone has replaced it with a actuator? either way i feel this is an important part of an old truck to me. It is nearly as critical as old trucks have manual transmissions... Thanks for your time. Mike

[Stab]

Keep us updated Mike! more pictures the better.