440-3 or 12 valve CTD

[The Other Ross]

It's back together time for the 72 W200.Frames blasted and painted new cab all stripped, edged in/base coated and mounted on new mounts(now a club cab instead of crew.I had planned on making it a Cummins but with the price of diesel about the same or higher than 94 octane I'm wondering if I should just bolt in the 440.The trucks already set up for the BB and there will be no parts running or fabrication involved plus a 440 truck is A LOT of fun.The CTD in this truck is no big deal.Build a new shove shaft for the divorced 205,crossflow rad brackets on the core support,fuel lines and figure out how to jam the charge air cooler in between the grill and the core support on the '72.I just don't want to spend any more time on this project I want to drive it!

[MoparNorm]

Hi Ross,
I've posted this elsewhere, but this is as good as place as any to state it again.
A diesel powered truck gets about 35% to 100% better fuel economy than a gasoline motor, depending upon use, the type of motor replaced, etc. etc.

If the 440 gets 8-10 mpg (like mine did) and the Cummins gets 16 to 20 mpg (like mine does), then the diesel advantage is near 100%, especially when hauling a load or towing.
At a 100% advantage, diesel would have to TWICE as expensive as gasoline, before you can even talk about a push.
That doesn't take into consideration the better diesel power band, the low rpm usable torque or the longevity of the diesel.

Diesel near me in SoCal is currently $1.97 per gallon and dropping. Gasoline is $2.19, so lets look at the numbers.

10 gallons of diesel cost $19.79 and can take you 160 to 200 miles.

10 gallons of gasoline cost $21.99 and can take you 80 to 100 miles.

Let's extrapolate:
Driving a diesel 10,000 miles costs $995.
Driving a gasoline 440 motor 10,000 miles costs $2,190.
Your mileage may vary....= )
Now, just for argument let's say gasoline stays at $2.19 and diesel skyrockets (not likely) to say $3.00 per gallon.
Gasoline for 10,000 miles = $2,190.
Diesel for 10,000 miles = $1,500.
Diesel would have to be $4.20 per gallon, or up $2.23 a gallon before it would be a push!

Even using the best case gasoline costs and fuel economy and the worst case diesel costs and fuel economy, diesel wins.

[712edf]

I wouldn't let the cost of diesel sway you, the cummins wins pretty much in every aspect of this swap except for maybe two....A It's gonna cost more up front to do the conversion..B It's gonna take more time and it sounds like you are burned out at this point or will be in the near future. Sounds like you've already put alot into this, too much maybe to cut corners now...Ask yourself "What do I really want?" While I hate to admit it the cummins is the more usable/capable of the two. And if I ever want one I'd just assume get a truck that came with one, but that's just ME. I'm just nuts about a 440, which obviously doesn't make it the better motor, but makes it the better motor for ME.

[smalltowncowboy]

i dont have a 440 and dont really want a 440, i have a 360 now but would love to have a 12V cummins or a CAT. if horsepower is what you want, you can build some serious power from a 12V and the 12V gets better mileage and is easier to install than a 24V.

[712edf]

i dont have a 440 and dont really want a 440, i have a 360 now but would love to have a 12V cummins or a CAT.

Ahh! CATERPILLAR That's more like it. Something around 15 liters should suffice. Oops didn't mean to go to la-la land here.

[smalltowncowboy]

a kid i went to school with, his dad had a 2wd chevy with a CAT in it. that was a stump pulling SOB.

[MoparNorm]

I'm not sure of Ross' location, but in CA and the 12 other states dumb enough to follow our CA EPA, I'm not even sure the CAT is legal to run in a vehicle under 8500 GVW.
Or legal to run after 2010.
The Cummins will be grandfathered as a formerly street legal engine.

[712edf]

Probably right! But the idea of a locomotive (i'm kiddin') motor in a 72 Dodge W200 appeals to me.

[JimmieD]

Hey, Ross, don't deny yourself reasonable and harmless pleasures, have your cake & eat it too!

Shove that bad boy 440 in there and get that truck running. Advantage: Ross. Then take your sweet time waiting for that deal of deals, the one you'd never find now. Gather up the pile of needed Cummins stuff, engine, trans, adapter, axles & maybe even stumble on some other fun stuff, taking your time. Advantage: Ross.

Then when you're darned well good & ready, have had some fun with the gasser, pull & swap. Truck will be like a whole new experience, far more power, mileage as mentioned, and a million mile motor under the hood.

Then find a '68 Dart 2 dr sedan, and make a new home for that 440... :~ )

['68 2dr sedans are really light, hated to see mine with a 360 go bye-bye.]

[76WAGON200]

I like Jimmie D's argument because I am a little on the impatient side myself and that's the way I would go.

As for the Cat option, I have looked into this a bit and the closest thing to a useable pick-up engine is either a 3208(V8) or 3116/3126(I6). All of which are nearly twice the weight of a Cummins and somewhat larger. The new 6.6 is a techno engine with more computer power than the space shuttle and way out of my price range. I have always thought that a 3114 would be a neat swap into an old flat fender as opposed to the 4BT. I have never seen one of these in a pick up but I did once see a 3208 in a Checker Cab that was jacked up and had big tires on it. It had tourist stickers all over it and looked like it had been to all of those places. Pretty cool.

Just out of curiosity, does a 727 from a '76 W200 bolt up to a Cummins or do you need the newer tranny that came with the engine? How much more than a 400/440 does the Cummins weigh and can the Dana 44 take the extra weight? If not, is the next step a Dana 60?

[712edf]

Don't think the cummins bolts up to the same bell as either LA or B/RB engines, so you'd have to go with a later variant. I don't know the weight, but my guess would be around 400lbs. extra. The factory cummins trucks were upgraded to the Dana 60, so I'd assume it'd be the best to do the same.

[AdventurerSport]

I agree with JimmieD, go for the 440 now, you can always build this or another truck to CTD power.

BB trucks ARE FUN! :)

Good luck!

JS

[Hobcobble]

It's back together time for the 72 W200.Frames blasted and painted new cab all stripped, edged in/base coated and mounted on new mounts(now a club cab instead of crew.I had planned on making it a Cummins but with the price of diesel about the same or higher than 94 octane I'm wondering if I should just bolt in the 440.The trucks already set up for the BB and there will be no parts running or fabrication involved plus a 440 truck is A LOT of fun.The CTD in this truck is no big deal.Build a new shove shaft for the divorced 205,crossflow rad brackets on the core support,fuel lines and figure out how to jam the charge air cooler in between the grill and the core support on the '72.I just don't want to spend any more time on this project I want to drive it!

I think you've answered your own question. Put that big block in there
and enjoy it. I don't dispute the torque and fuel economy advantages
the CTD has over the 440 but how often will you be "working" your truck
as opposed to everyday use? Plus.... nothing beats the sound of a big
block MoPar.
John

[MoparNorm]

I think you've answered your own question. Put that big block in there
and enjoy it. I don't dispute the torque and fuel economy advantages
the CTD has over the 440 but how often will you be "working" your truck
as opposed to everyday use? Plus.... nothing beats the sound of a big
block MoPar.
John

Have you heard headers on a Cummins?.....= )

Personally I like the sound of a Poly.....ha! ha!

[The Other Ross]

All good responces.I've also played with the idea of making the 440 propane(if I could just find a propane setup off of a irrigation engine)and saving the CTD for my 64 W300 with the service body.This truck will be worked it has already been upgraded to a Dana 60 L/S front and a 60HD L/S rear with 80 axles.I live in COLD(sometimes) country so starting is an issue(sits at work for two days at a time).