No Spark (kind of urgent help req'd)

[rickt4498]

pieters' no start problem...

PIETER... sorry to post so late in the posts...

i have a commercial ( rental type) towbar, or if you want to rent a trailer, I can tow your truck back home , if that helps.

you said your 65 miles from home, which must be really difficult to traverse...

I'm available SAt or Sun, whichever is better for you... let me know...

rick 248-877-4498

good luck my friend...

[pieter]

Hey Rick -

I appreciate the offer, but the truck will be in new hands for the next few days. The Tow Truck is going to pick it up sometime on Friday and a mechanic for the County Road Commision is going to take a look at it. He wanted to take a look at it for me since wednesday, but he's about 20 miles away and I didn't want to spend the $$$ for a wrecker to come and get it. Just so happens his buddy has a wrecker, so it's working out I guess. Plus, I don't know what kind of $$$ they are going to want either :o(. All they tell me is, it won't be much.

At this point, there is nothing I can do. Just to fill everyone in, here is what we accomplished today. Timing chain did not slip. Top Dead center is still on que with the rotor pointing at #1 cylinder. I talked to the mechanic down the street and he gave me some guidance. First was to determine if I get 12v at the "+" of the coil with the ignition on. He said to charge up the battery good and strong before doing this. I would get 12v at the coil momentarily and then it would drop to zero. I figured there is a short in the line. There is one wire that links the coil, ASD shut-down relay, fuel pump, wide open throttle relay and oxygen sensor. In my simple brain, this told me there was a short and the relay was opening back up. I used a test light and put the ground on the positive terminal of the battery and touched this circuit and it would light up. Suppose to be the other way around. Mechanic also said that 10.5v is absolute minimum for this circuit to have for the computer to work correctly.

Went back to mechanic and he said that the momentary 12v was good and meant the circuit was working. He now said to go back, hoook everything backup and turn the key on and watch for the 12v to charge up, then drop to zero. When at zero, crank the engine to see if 12v comes back. He said it should. Went to truck and 12v does not come back. Went back to this guy and he said pretty much I'm out of luck w/o bringing it to a shop to hook up the diagnostic machine, get out the wiring diagrams and trying to isolate why the circuit isn't getting reactivated.

In my mind I figured, lets pull the error codes again. I go back and pull the codes. I get some of the ones mentioned earlier, but I get error 11 again which is the engine sensor. Basically, the computer doesn't know that the engine is turning over. The only thing on this engine in my mind that would tell the computer this is the halo pick-up coil in the distributor. I pull it out and clean the metal ring that it reads off of. Put it all back together and nothing. Go to a parts place and they don't have one. Go to where I got my new part and ask them what their out of the box dead rate are of this type of part and they say very few. Basically telling me their part is good. I don't want to drop another $30 on yet another one.

I also can't find any testing info on this pick-up coil either. I'm thinking the new one I got is bad, but I'm not certain. Also in the testing info and the Hayes manual, it says I should have 12v going to this Halo. I have 8.8v. The wiring diagram says this power comes directly from the computer and it is labeled at an input of 8v. I'm going to guess that 8.8v is adequate. If we indeed need 12v here, then that wire is probably where my issue is... I may open up the wiring harness at the computer and see what voltage I get right out of the connecter, but I would guess I would see 8.8v (maybe not though)

Guess for me, I just don't know all the finite in's and out's to be able to diagnose it properly.

That's why I'm pretty much done working on it and hopefully this other guy has the knowledge to troubleshoot it w/o wasting a lot of time.

[712edf]

Pieter, you're just at the point where the special diagnostic equipment comes into play. This has little to do with your capabilities and more with the gadgetry that automakers began tossing under the hood a generation ago. Back-in-the-day people used to do there own tune-up (points,plugs,filters,etc) or paid a small fee & let the dealer or a garage do it. When electonic ignition showed up that was once less thing (points) to deal with, but also less opportunity (need) for you to seek their services. Computerized electronic gadgetry (and all that emissions stuff with it) appeared and started to put the basic joe customer out of the tune-up picture, left him scratching his/her head the first time that CHECK ENGINE light came on. So back to the dealer he goes, money in hand to fix whatever may be wrong with his ride cause his ride's gotta last 4 more yrs till its paid for. For the dealers ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY! And they make plenty off mechanically minded folks like you & me who don't have all the tools to figure out what's wrong in the first place...Good luck and I can't wait to find out what dinky little part is giving you fits.

[rickt4498]

...the increasing electronic nightmare

when i started in the automotive parts business, the "big" alternators put out 37-42 amps, vehicles built for ambulance applications were a "massive" 65 amps. A few years later, a fully loaded 1974 Pontiac Grandville 4 door "power everything" utilized an 80 amp unit.

Nowadays, a 150 amp unit is needed in order to run the windshield rain sensor that automatically turn on your wipers, because the driver didn't, could't, or was preoccupied by his/her MP3 player to recognize raindrops on the windshield.

...aahhh...progress

[KRB64]

Agreed.

I like to be able to "see" things that are broke. Guess I'm old school.

Don't know what I'd do with a vehicle that needed to be hooked to life support for diagnosis...

Good luck pieter!

[rickt4498]

no spark condition...

PIETER...bump...bump... any progress ??

[pieter]

Hey Rick -

Unfortunately, the truck is still not running. The guy that was going to work on it had a car to finish up before he could start on my truck. Then, last week he was sick. Supposedly, he has started to look at it and I will call him later today to see what he thinks the prognosis will be.

Been looking for a replacement vehicle, or at least a secondary vehicle but funds are pretty non-existent for me at the moment :o(

Having no vehicle to drive is not much fun....

Thanks for asking and maybe there will be some good news later today...

[rickt4498]

no spark...

hope your tech finds a quick solution...

good luck...

[pieter]

It's over...

The truck will be going to the great Junkyard in the sky... Well, at least part of it. Part of it will live on as someone I know wants the utility bed off of the back. I will probably pull some parts off as well.

It sure does have some good extra parts on it as well that I may pull. The fuel pump is brand new, although I don't think I want to pull the tank. Just realizing though, that we will probably pull the bed, which will give easy access.

Basically, the mechanic said it's most likely in the wiring. I could tear apart the harnes's and try to find the culprit. Another option would be to get another harness off another truck and try to swap it out. I may try that, but we'll see.

Booked a trip to New Jersey to pick up my new ride. More on that at a later time.

Thanks everyone for their help and support. Unfortunately, this one is taking the best of us all.

Pieter

[712edf]

losing a patient

I guess there's no resurrection to be had for this ram.

[Paul in MN]

I am Sorry to hear this.

Pieter,

We did our best, but these electrical demons are about impossible to diagnose from a distance, and may be impossible to diagnose even with "hands on" the truck.

What really irritates me is that a lot of good parts, and a "used to be" truck needs to become Chinese pot metal because the designers made the **** wiring and electrical so complicated that it can't be fixed without tremendous expense. I see the same thing happening to $100k farm tractors, $250K combines, and $500k Cat graders and similar big equipment. What a friggin waste!! A huge amount of energy and money will be spent to replace equipment way before it is worn out because of some malfunctioning sensor, switch, or corroded wire terminal or chaffed harness. As a nation, we are in a world of hurt!! Our own technology is killing us.

Long live the Power Wagon, the Farmall tractors, the 8N Fords and all the other farm and construction and transportation that built this country and fed its people and is still used productively 50 years later. They were built to a good technology, understandable, and fixable.

My Rant could go on, but I know you guys have similar feelings, so I'll save you from further irritation. Best wishes to all who are working to keep their "iron" in useful and productive condition.

Pieter, please do NOT take offense at this rant, I think you went way out of your way to protect and preserve. Offense IS intended for the engineers who designed this unfixable stuff, and the bean counters who ordered the prices to be low on all the components so failure is just a matter of time. I wish it was different!!

Paul in MN

[pieter]

No offense taken...
I agree that much of life has become way more complicated then it needs to be. The main computer on this truck has a 66 pin connector. Mind you while I was walking the junkyard, I came accross the same connector for a more modern Dodge Neon (ironically located in the same driverside fenderwell area as my truck) My truck being a 1991 and this neon being something in the 2000 range.

Every sensor and gizmo has a few wires going to it. Both sending and receiving a signal of some sort...

There are several things that I've learned with this experience and things in general. I would not want to have a truck of this area as a off-roading vehicle or expedition type vehicle. Not being able to easily diagnose w/o manuals and testers is crazy, let alone a simple solenoid or oxygen sensor could disable you completely. The parts one would have to carry would take up a lot of space.

The other is what will happen in another 30 years if someone would want to restore a vehicle of this era?? They aren't going to be doing it with a bucket, bailing wire and duct tape... Extra computers aren't going to be easy to come by, how about a wiring harness of this nature or some of the solenoids, sensors and such that can make or break your restoration? Maybe an OEM/NOS taillight or headlight bucket is getting harder to find and are earning a pretty penny for a flat fender, but what is it going to do for vehicles now??? You will still be able to drive your flat fender even though you don't have the correct headlight bucket, but you won't drive your 1991 throttle bodied dodge without an oxygen sensor or a MAP sensor or some other $10 plastic part (or a functioning wiring harness with good connectors) ...

So yeah - new ride will be a 1975 dodge Dart... Something I can fix just about everything on. No computers or all those plastic sensors, solenoids, endless miles of wire and vacumn hoses....

[KRB64]

Ya'll speak the truth, but I think we're out numbered...

[OLD DODGE]

Pieter,

Why not throw on a standard intake and carb with electronic ignition? You might find someone who would give you a two barrel set up for free if you don't have funds for a four barrel. Get a standard electronic ignition distributor with an MSD 6A box or a Chrysler box and you are truckin' again.
Cheap, easy, reliable, and trouble shootable.

Here is a pic of another "swinger". I know I would rather be driving that bird instead. I have owned a few Darts in the past. Every one needed new upper and lower ball joints installed. After that they ride like they're new.

[712edf]

OLDDODGE, You have a lime green 'bird...I am in AWE of you now:-)