Jumping 727 ?

[Copper]

I recently aquired a 77' D200 Club with 318 and a 727. I was proud of the fact that it only had 60k original miles. It would seem Farmer John kept it covered up. It's not a bad looker but suffers from all the usual maladies of spending so much time just sitting.

I've got two things going on that I think are related.

1) If you drop your foot off the break and give it the gas, there is a bit of hangup before it takes off. You can feel it and hear it. Reminds me of pulling a trailer with a loose hitch.

2) If you put it in reverse sometimes it almost "hops" a few times as it takes off. It's pretty easy to reproduce if you go from F to R and then give it a little bump on the gas.

If you take things slow and easy then it's not so noticable, but life's not always slow and easy. It may do it in R no matter how nice you are.

I inspected and observed the support bearing and u-joints switching from F to R, I don't see the issue there.

I thought it might be a bad tooth in the differential, but there are no other signs of trouble there. No unusual noises on the highway or when hauling a load

There are no symptoms or unusual noises when braking or slowing down.

It's as if there is some catch in the tranny. Both Transmission and Rear end were serviced right before I bought it.

Any ideas?

[KRB64]

That would be a "W"200 if its the same one in the picture.

The hiccup is probably the accelerator pump. Carb needs a quick rebuild. The hesitation this causes could be what you're seeing in R but may not be the whole problem.

[pwdave]

copper, you are describing a trans problem, it sounds like the fluid level is low, I'm sure you have checked that, so that narrows it down to a pump gone or going bad. a stuck or sticking accumulator will cause it also. if the pump makes enough pressure at idle to just barely apply the bands it will cause what you describe. (common problem from sitting). pull the pan and check the band adjustment also. it's not a hard deal to do now, it gets more difficult later when the trans is being rebuilt. but the main message is this, don't let this go on to long it will ruin the transmixer. Dave.

[Copper]

That would be a "W"200 if its the same one in the picture..

ur,...um... what picture? Sorry, it's 2WD. I know it's near blasphemy for some, but 2WD are good for more than just parts.

The hiccup is probably the accelerator pump. Carb needs a quick rebuild. The hesitation this causes could be what you're seeing in R but may not be the whole problem.

I'm familiar with engine hestitation; I'm struggling with that on my RamCharger. I wish it were that easy. This is definately a catch and release sort of feel.

I do appreciate the thought. That's what I'm looking for; things I haven't thought of or encountered before. I spent quite a bit of time in the engine already. I'd forgotten what a good running 318 feels like until I got this one tuned in.

[Copper]

copper, you are describing a trans problem, it sounds like the fluid level is low, I'm sure you have checked that, ...

It's actually just a tad high. Not alarmingly so (maybe 1/8"). I must have topped it off when it was very warm, but not hot.

... so that narrows it down to a pump gone or going bad. a stuck or sticking accumulator will cause it also.

I had the speedo gear out for inspection last weekend. It (speedo needle) has been shaking irratically at higher speeds. (Yes, I already replaced the cable.) Everything in there looked clean as a whistle and the fluid that ran out was fine. After putting the gear back in it's propper alignment and with a new o-ring, I topped it off with about 8oz of MMO. I figured that would either make it or break it.

if the pump makes enough pressure at idle to just barely apply the bands it will cause what you describe. (common problem from sitting).

This thing idles well enough at 500rpm; I have it set on 750rpm. I've been thinking of turning the idle up. (I also still have a draw on the amp guage at idle after replacing all the components). I wonder if another 100rpm or so would cure (ie. mask) both problems.

What are your thought on that one?

pull the pan and check the band adjustment also. it's not a hard deal to do now, it gets more difficult later when the trans is being rebuilt. but the main message is this, don't let this go on to long it will ruin the transmixer. Dave.

I was thinking bands myself. I just wanted some confirmantion before I tore into it. I havn't put 500 miles on it yet. It looks like I've just bought myself yet another too good to be true project truck. My wife is suspicious that I have a weak spot for rigs destined for the dumpster. hmm :-)


Thanks again for the replies!

[DODGEBOYS]

l,d say the tranny filter was either plugged or deteroirated and the tranny is starving for fluid till the RPM,s come up

[Copper]

l,d say the tranny filter was either plugged or deteroirated and the tranny is starving for fluid till the RPM,s come up

It was "serviced" right before I bought it. The paint isn't even dirty on the pan. You can see the edges of the new gasket.

One would hope they at least changed the filter, maybe adjusted the bands.

Who knows what's coming loose now that it's getting used. I probably won't know until I drop the pan, change the fluid and filter, and adjust the bands myself.

After that, I'm guessing we can reasonably assume a pump problem; which I'm also guessing would have the same symptoms as a fluid shortage?

[KRB64]

Oh OK, I thought what you were describing was caused by the engine, now I understand. Sorry for sending you down the wrong road.

IF the trans is in fact OK (don't assume that them that "serviced" it actually did stuff - unless you trust/know them) could something in the rear drums be hanging up? That could also explain the different reactions when going forward or reverse. Just trying to think of possabilities...

[Copper]

IF the trans is in fact OK (don't assume that them that "serviced" it actually did stuff - unless you trust/know them) could something in the rear drums be hanging up? That could also explain the different reactions when going forward or reverse. Just trying to think of possabilities...

I've been chewing on that one myself. One would think it would be a quick matter of pulling the drums and taking a look. But of course, you have to pull the axles to get the drums off on the 3/4 ton. It looks like enough trouble that I might as well repack the bearings, replace the seals and put on new shoes and springs while I'm in there whether it needs them or not. Judging from the bolts and the seal, I'd say there is a high probability it's the original set.

If you let off the brakes and wait a couple seconds before you go, there is no noise. I'm not sure what or if that proves anything. Does it let the sticky brakes relax a bit? hmmm

I laid down beside the truck and had the Mrs. switch between gears and nudge the gas to determine where the noise is coming from. All that sheetmetal reflects and magnifies so much, it's impossible to tell. The driveshaft behavior does support that tension is being applied and then released. The pumpkin does squat a bit and then pop back up. I think that is what makes the "hopping feeling". That makes me think the brakes are holding it in place. However, the brakes work fine and there are no abnormal sounds when driving. It rolls easily when you let off the brake when in gear. That's the part that makes it seem unlikely.

On the other hand ... I've noted this thing spends almost no time in 2nd gear. It practically moves right on through into third with no delay. Either that or it's moving through first into second immediately and I only notice the shift to third. It shifts so smoothly it's hard to tell. On a slow and easy acceleration it's in third at about 15mph. With moderate acceleration it's more like 25mph, but the shift to 2nd is still a blurr. Doesn't seem to be a stain on the engine from shifting inappropriately. It definately seems to be geared lower than my RamCharger. I'm not sure what "normal" is for an older 3/4 ton. Everything works as expected without delay when shifting manually.

Do I remember correctly that 2nd band and reverse are related?

I've only put a few hundred miles on it. I need a little more time to observe. My gut tells me I'm going to have to just start tearing into it and see what I find.

Ain't these old rigs great?

Thanks

[The Other Ross]

Carrier Bearing?

[KRB64]

My rear brakes were so old and rusty that the springs finally broke and everything just kinda hung around loose in there. Don't remember the symptoms though.

Might as well redo the rear brakes and bearing and mark that one off the list. You can upgrade to 1 ton shoes while you're in there if you want.

[Copper]

Carrier Bearing?

It sure looks ok. Good rubber. Supple but not loose.

[Copper]

My rear brakes were so old and rusty that the springs finally broke and everything just kinda hung around loose in there. Don't remember the symptoms though.

Might as well redo the rear brakes and bearing and mark that one off the list. You can upgrade to 1 ton shoes while you're in there if you want.

Upgrade? What's the difference? If it is different, then how do they fit?

Is it just different shoes with more "pad"?

Thanks

[KRB64]

Drums should be same. Ton shoes just cover the drum better. You can keep the 3/4 piston or upgrade to a ton piston too. This works on the 89-93s, I'm assuming it would be the same for a 70s.

I put ton shoes on my CTD but kept the same pistons. I wanted better braking but didn't want to overdo the rears. Others that haul a lot have and like it. Again, this is on 1st gen diesels.

[DODGEBOYS]

The driveshaft behavior does support that tension is being applied and then released. The pumpkin does squat a bit and then pop back up. I think that is what makes the "hopping feeling". That makes me think the brakes are holding it in place.

the rear drive shaft slip yoke splines on dodges bind / when you come to a STOP sign and hit the brakes the a$$ end lifts and the brakes hold the tension on the splines / when you let off the brake and give it some gas the a$$ end drops from the tension on the splines being released