Which is better, Part time or Full time?

[AdventurerSport]

Better idea...let's take a series of Power Wagons to the track...we'll have 'em run thru a section of dry pavement, then wet pavement, then dry dirt, then wet dirt, and see who makes it thru quickest? :) We'll leave 'em all in normal dry driving conditions, i.e. fulltime trucks in Hi (not Hi-Loc), parttime trucks in 2HI, and some newer HEMI trucks like mine in AWD. :) Who'd win?? :)

Oh, and, after test driving two new Hemi Rams, both with 4wd, I bought the fulltime truck. The parttime truck just wanted to spin the rear tires on hard acceleration in 2hi, the fulltime truck hooks up and goes...who would win?? :P

JS

[JimmieD]

My first post in this thread was made when I had just finished the '77 W-200 Fulltime truck. It was a very good truck with many advantages.

Since then I have the '90 W-350 Part-time truck, with NP205, Dana 60/Dana 70. I've used it in snow, rain, mud and on dry pavement. Either truck has its own virtues and limitations.

I don't care for the steering restrictions of a 60' turning radius in 4-wheel drive with either truck. I didn't have a choice with the Fulltime truck, but I do with the Part-time setup. I get better mileage in 2Hi when 4Hi or 4Lo isn't needed, and save wear and tear on some components. In 2Hi there is less wear on the tires when it may be used. I can park the truck in a normal parking lot in 2Hi, first try.

"Better idea...let's take a series of Power Wagons to the track...we'll have 'em run thru a section of dry pavement, then wet pavement, then dry dirt, then wet dirt, and see who makes it thru quickest? :) We'll leave 'em all in normal dry driving conditions, i.e. fulltime trucks in Hi (not Hi-Loc), parttime trucks in 2HI, and some newer HEMI trucks like mine in AWD. :) Who'd win?? :)"

Can't see that this would be a fair and accurate comparison....? A Fulltime truck in Hi, not Hi-Loc, still uses both axles to drive, but with a differential action between front and rear, correct? Hi-Loc simply eliminates the differential action, and causes full power to both axles? So it seems you're wanting to compare 2Wheel Drive to 4Wheel Drive and see which one is better in mud, dirt etc.? We already know that....and that's why Part-Time trucks have locking hubs!

I'd say for farm/ranch and continually changing traction conditions that Full-Time is best. Otherwise I would now opt for Part-Time.

JimmieD

[falcon62]

I'm planning on (eventually) installing a powertrax locker in the rear axle of my 1978 Full Time Power Wagon. I've heard lots of people complain about a total loss of traction on wet roads with automatic lockers. I'm hoping that the full time setup will make that less of a problem.

As for gas mileage I'm selling my 28mpg Jetta to finish up my Power Wagon. I don't know if part time or full time makes a huge difference at all when you compare it to the mileage I'm getting right now. :)

Travis

[n1265]

I too have owned both full time and part time 4wd.... In my younger years I didnt care about having to get out and lock in the hubs. ( in fact.. I didnt care about anything as long as the truck ran )

But now I like just putting it in drive and forget about it. I like my '77 m880, and I like my '96 ford explorer with the electric shift on the dash.

But for me locking in hubs are a thing of the past ! :)

Nick

[AdventurerSport]

JimmieD...you're right, I was just making my point...in responce to Paul Cook, who asked about taking two trucks to the track and trying to find a reason for 4wd on dry pavement, as though parttime is somehow "better"...:P

And, if fulltime is so unnecessary...hmm...ever seen a Subaru?? :P

I stoplight raced a Chevy SS454 pickup several years ago, with my 431 powered fulltime 76 Shortbed truck, and absolutely destroyed it. His truck was 2wd, of course, mine fulltime 4wd...he spun his rear tires on takeoff...I didn't, I just took off...so I won...
(THAT'S why it's advantageous to have ALL WHEEL DRIVE on DRY PAVEMENT) :P

Plus, keep in mind that a fulltime truck in HI does not act the same as a parttime truck in 4HI...4HI on a parttime truck is essentially the same as HI-LOC on a fulltime truck...:)

JS

[Paul Cook]

Dear AdventureSport, I spent 20 years in the US Army and 16 more years working in the US Government. For many of my 36 years, I worked at levels that involved attending staff meetings where we attempted to establish or clarify policy.

It was common to find people who had apparently been daydreaming or had actually dozed off when points were made. Then, when they regained awareness, they jumped back into a discussion and focussed on one phrase and began to argue their point, not realizing that the point had already been made and, in many cases, agreed on. Yet, they argued on and on.

We called that, "violently agreeing."

I am flattered that you are "violently agreeing" with me about the desireability of four-wheel drive. If you read my post again, I stated this based on my experience driving what was considered to be a dangerous vehicle when operated in two-wheel-drive and found that it could be safely operated at extreme limits if it was in four-wheel-drive.

Since I doubt that you dozed off while reading my post, I can only guess you only read the last paragraph. All your subsequent posts ignore my statements about the desireability of four-wheel drive. Here it is again: My experience says that four-wheel-drive is the drive of choice except when driving on dry pavement. Then I want to be able to SELECT TWO-WHEEL-DRIVE since I have never discovered any advantage to the alternative.

Having said I found no advantage, I suggested a trip to the drag strip where the advantage could be expected to be demonstrated - again, something you agreed to. Then you came a little unhinged and started proposing all sorts of track conditions OTHER THAN DRY PAVEMENT - additional violent agreement.

From your posts, it appears that you never drive on dry pavement unless you are drag racing on public streets. Again you describe the results that could be expected from my suggested drag strip tests.

You have not addressed any specific advantage of four-wheel-drive in NORMAL, LAWFUL driving on DRY PAVEMENT that offsets any increased drive line friction, wear on front drive line, and the resulting possibly increased fuel consumption.

Since we are in general agreement - even violently agreeing - please address this.

[MoparNorm]

I think the racing has already been done....

The vast majority of WRC Rally cars (World Rally Cup) are 4WD. Pioneered by the Audi Quatro and AMC Jeep Eagle, nearly every rally racer today employs 4WD. While the trend is towards improved dirt road races, many of these races originally used courses with a great deal of pavement (wasn't the Novi Indy racer 4WD?)
As long as the engine can provide adequate power, 4WD drive cars enjoy the same advantage on pavement as they enjoy off-road. Increased traction, more precise steering, less wheel spin, more controlled power to the ground and consistent handeling,...and yes it is entirely possible for me to fall asleep while reading.... = )
MN

[AdventurerSport]

Yeah, what MoparNorm said...:)

Paul, what you call "violently agreeing" is something that we here in Cherokee County refer to as a "friendly arguement". Same idea, different terminology.

Anyway, I hope that I have not offended you in any way, I'm having fun with this while expressing my alternate point of view.

Also, in regards to falling asleep while reading, or not reading your entire post, I'll point back to this statement from my last post:

"I stoplight raced a Chevy SS454 pickup several years ago, with my 431 powered fulltime 76 Shortbed truck, and absolutely destroyed it. His truck was 2wd, of course, mine fulltime 4wd...he spun his rear tires on takeoff...I didn't, I just took off...so I won...
(THAT'S why it's advantageous to have ALL WHEEL DRIVE on DRY PAVEMENT) :P"

Does this statement fully clarify my point? IT IS advantageous to have 4wd on dry pavement, period. ALSO...remember, fulltime 4wd in HI is not the same as parttime 4wd in 4Hi. Fulltime t-cases incorporate a differential unit that allows the front and rear driveshafts to rotate at different speeds. So, power can be applied to both the front and rear without a binding situation occuring. Because of this, it is beneficial to have fulltime 4wd, even on dry pavement. It is necessary to have fulltime 4wd on constantly varying driving paths, which is why I drive what I drive everyday.

Just to give you an idea of where I'm coming from, remember that I live in Cherokee County, and I go for many weeks at a time without seeing dry pavement...:P

Even so, your quote here: "My experience says that four-wheel-drive is the drive of choice except when driving on dry pavement. Then I want to be able to SELECT TWO-WHEEL-DRIVE since I have never discovered any advantage to the alternative." What is the advantage of "select(ing) two wheel drive" on dry pavement, over running a fulltime setup? What does it do differently?? All that I can gather from this statement is that you must love to spin your rear tires on takeoff and lay rubber down on said dry pavement.

Hey, whatever suits you, but I don't have a need to burn rubber with my trucks, I prefer to do that with my '67 Coronet R/T. :)

JS

[Bob Hansen]

As I recall when I bought a new truck back in '78
The EPA mileage was 1 mpg lower hwy on the full time then the part time trucks, city ratings were the same.
As for wear, the full time 4x4 axle will typically out last it's part time counterpart. Several reasons, lubrication, vibration, back wear (when the hubs are still "locked in" while in 2wd),

When pulling the car trailer, I prefer to do it with a fulltime truck, much smoother all the way around.

[Renegade05]

It Depends...

I've used 4WD very rarely on my Jeep and on the Chevy Blazer I had before that -- we've gotten so little snow lately and living in suburbia, if it's really bad and the township hasn't plowed yet, I'm probably not going out there anyway. If I really have to, I can walk for most necessities... Both vehicles use electrically switched systems -- dash buttons in the Chevy, lever in the Jeep. For the vast majority of my driving, I'm on paved roads and not drag racing, in very moderate weather.

The Audi quattro system really does work -- on dry pavement, it's like being on rails, and wet pavement is no sweat. I haven't driven in the snow, so I can't comment on that. I do have to be careful sometimes when I'm in the Jeep to remember that certain corners I really MUST slow down, where I could just coast through in the TT. The main difference (other than cost) between it and older full-time 4WD trucks is the sophistication, but the new trucks are catching up.

For my needs, part-time fills the bill, but as always -- Your Mileage May Vary...

[MoparNorm]

My last add about fulltime covers wet pavement, we only get about 10 inches of rainfall per year, but sometimes 6 inches of it in 35 minutes. I love the fulltime feature in the new Jeeps and Dodges, that computer is much more sensitive than my shift lever hand and I don't let MT drive in the rain without the Jeep in Fulltime, hitting a puddle* at 65 can ruin your day in 2WD, in Fulltime 4WD it's hardly noticeable.
MN
*Our freeways don't drain well during the first rainfall of the year, a dry road can become submerged in seconds here. I'm not advocating looking for puddles at 65 mph, that's something I used to do at 19, no need to repeat that learning experience again....= )

[JimmieD]

Yes, we get plenty of snow, and lots of mud in the forest, but SoCal flashfloods are no laughing matter either. You can get hurt bad, quick. The folks around here, not the tourists, know how to handle the roads in winter. Down in your neck the 'Sunny Californy' thinking causes people to put down their guard. That's exactly what makes the tourists into a real and present danger for the home folks.

[Gordon Maney]

Originally posted by MoparNorm
Gordon,
I've been turning hubs since 1958, but I must confess that the newer systems found on Jeeps is not making me miss getting out in the mud or snow at all! The best part about the Jeep system is that you still have ability to pull it into low or lock. The transfer case on the new Ram is a beefier version of the Jeep Comand Track system and the newer Quadradrive II on the '05 Grand Cherokee also includes traction control, it is just about the ultimate in four wheel drive systems, and just like with cruise control, I'm slowly admitting that the computer can make decisions as good as I can...and much faster. = )
MN

....when you say new Ram, at what year are you starting the new Ram?

[Renegade05]

Originally posted by MoparNorm
Our freeways don't drain well during the first rainfall of the year, a dry road can become submerged in seconds here. I'm not advocating looking for puddles at 65 mph, that's something I used to do at 19, no need to repeat that learning experience again....= )

I've had some experience with that, too -- hydroplaning at any speed is no fun. There's a spot on US-322 called the Lewistown Narrows where the road is squeezed by mountain on one side and the Juniata River on the other, and during heavy rain storms, the water pours over the road in sheets (unless PennDOT has fixed the drainage problems). I used to travel that way to college in my beat up Subaru wagon (not 4WD) with balding tires. Mighty disconcerting when you can feel that loss of adhesion...

[MoparNorm]

Originally posted by Gordon Maney
....when you say new Ram, at what year are you starting the new Ram?

I was referring to the 1993 and newer style. I'll have to research the exact year for the T-case change. Jeep calls it Command trac, a true fulltime 4WD system that is traction sensitive. The designation is NP 242 and NP242HD. It is MUCH more accurate and sensitive than the old NP203 system.
MN