Checking for Dakota interest

[Joe Flo]

HOWEVER, Dodge just announced a new Tradesman Package with a list of standard features on a base model Ram, with no carpet, no center consol, no power windows and no bells and whistles, but with a Hemi, for around $23,000.

Norm,

The hemi is nice but businesses are looking to cut fuel expenses for their fleets. This seems to be missing the mark. It also misses the mark with most people who have issues with the costs to commute to work.

Joe

[MoparNorm]

HOWEVER, Dodge just announced a new Tradesman Package with a list of standard features on a base model Ram, with no carpet, no center consol, no power windows and no bells and whistles, but with a Hemi, for around $23,000.

Norm,

The hemi is nice but businesses are looking to cut fuel expenses for their fleets. This seems to be missing the mark. It also misses the mark with most people who have issues with the costs to commute to work.

Joe

Actually the Hemi with spark displacement gets the SAME fuel economy as the 3.7 V6.
By keeping the option list at zero on this truck they can offer it as a package at a lower price than the 3.7 V6.
It doesn't miss the mark at all, it's finally right on target and is priced thousands below the Ford and GM offerings.

[Chewie]

Actually the Hemi with spark displacement gets the SAME fuel economy as the 3.7 V6.
By keeping the option list at zero on this truck they can offer it as a package at a lower price than the 3.7 V6.
It doesn't miss the mark at all, it's finally right on target and is priced thousands below the Ford and GM offerings.

Still needs a diesel.
A small diesel beats them both.
If they're going to offer a work truck, make it a work truck!

[MoparNorm]

Still needs a diesel.
A small diesel beats them both.
If they're going to offer a work truck, make it a work truck!

Don't disagree at all!...and with any luck we should see that happen in a year or two. However we must not forget that Chrysler was near death, is still not making a profit and to certify diesels will cost literally billions...for redesign, certification by EPA and safety testing. Each new vehicle model must undergo separate testing, this means about $750,000 per model and per variation! So it's $750,000 per transmission, another $750,000 per engine type and displacement...and that cost is assuming the vehicle passes! Add another $250,000 for a re-test.

That means for 3 engine and transmissions there could be at least 6 combinations, 9 if the diesel trans also works with the gasoline motors, for a testing cost of $6,750,000, just for government mandated tests, plus additional billions for design and engineering, manufacturing and vendors.
If you go down that road, you had better be sure that you can sell the product. Sell 30,000 and you are a hero, sell 1,000 and you're looking for a new job.

Keep in mind that this Tradesman package is driven by price point, a diesel would also add about $2,500 to the purchase price.

I'm not saying it's not going to happen, just saying it's not going to happen soon, or with this new Dodge Ram model.

[Chewie]

Didn't Cummins already certify those new engines? I guess I was hoping that most of those issues had already been put to bed, and that the delay had more to do with merger issues than testing. Let's hope we see them soon...

[MoparNorm]

Didn't Cummins already certify those new engines? I guess I was hoping that most of those issues had already been put to bed, and that the delay had more to do with merger issues than testing. Let's hope we see them soon...

No, Cummins tested the engines, in Dodges for the Department of Energy, to test the concept. Cummins then tested the engines for an additional 4 million miles!

Chrysler is who musty certify the engines for the DOT and EPA. Certification involves an independent testing lab confirming that the engine and transmission combination meet government requirements for emissions, fuel economy, crash standards*, etc. etc.

Each separate engine combination must be tested and certified.

Example, A V6 Cummins and 5 speed trans, installed in the 1500 must be certified, that certification is not applicable for use in a 2500, or with a 6 speed, or with a V8 Cummins, each variation must be certified separately.

That is why engine and transmission options are becoming fewer and fewer.
Federal regulations and individual state regulations, and different country regulations, are making it more and more expensive to be in business.

At some point in the next two to three years, US, Canadian and European standards may merge to create a uniform standard that will make automakers lives much easier and the price tag of vehicles a bit lower, as combining multiple testing and certifications for only 1 standard would be a big help to lower the cost of business and therefore the end product.
Right now there is little incentive for a car maker to try new things when they are uncertain whether the 'new thing" will sell enough to recover their overhead.




* Crash Standards are why we don't have a Hemi in the Wrangler. It fits but it's length over the standard V6 eliminates the mandated "Crush zone".

[OLD DODGE]

Chrysler is who musty certify the engines for the DOT and EPA. Certification involves an independent testing lab confirming that the engine and transmission combination meet government requirements for emissions, fuel economy, crash standards*, etc. etc.

Each separate engine combination must be tested and certified.

Example, A V6 Cummins and 5 speed trans, installed in the 1500 must be certified, that certification is not applicable for use in a 2500, or with a 6 speed, or with a V8 Cummins, each variation must be certified separately.

That just reminded me of a conversation I had with Bruce at Chrysler Historical. He was telling me how you used to be able to custom order trucks however you wanted them. But then it got to the point that you couldn't change a thing without it being tested as you said. Obviously cost prohibitive for low volume models. There wouldn't be a 426 CSS around today if they had to test and certify them back then.

[Blisters]

l said it in the other post / l would not have bother with this board because even thou the Dak is considered mid-size / l consider it FULL-size because of the fact of the V8 motor and tranny and t-case and rearend are ALL the same as a full-size / basically its a Ram 1500 drivetrain in a smaller package


thats like the ramcharger and trailduster names added to the full size board / everybody knows there dodge trucks except the ONE person that asked

Sorry, I think it can't be considered a "full-size" unless the space between the rear fenders in the bed is at least 48 1/2"....

[Matthew Ziegler]

diesel

wasn't there a diesel Liberty in production for a short time? I heard rumors that the oil companies may have had something to do with it's demise. I had an 87 and a 96 Dodge Dakota, loved them full frame, wider cabs than an s10 or ranger. now i'm stuck with a Chevy colorado, crumple zones all over the paper thin frame the bed floor is super thin and dents easily, no distributor expensiveto replace coil on plug ignition. I think I might've got a little carried away, sorry bout that

[ThunderStick]

Diesel

Yes, the Liberty was produced with a diesel for a short time. Friend of mine has one. I currently have a '05 Dakota with 4.7 V8. Would consider a diesel in a new Dakota if it have 'nuff hosses to pull my trailers. I pull a 22 foot camper and a 16 foot flatbed with slab-wood from the sawmill several times a year. Also whenever a friend needs to rescue a broke down car, we winch it on to the flatbed and haul in for repair.

With talk of the new Dakota being a "life-style" truck, I doubt we're gonna see diesel. That will make me move on to a 1500 or 2500 truck with at least a Hemi.

My $0.02 worth.

[Matthew Ziegler]

truck

It seems that you can't get a nice 2 or 4 wd 5 speed regular cab pickup anymore, also who decided to get rid of vent windows and rain gutters? a friend of mine has a 2011 ram 1500 coil spring rear end short bed, 4 doors and more bells and whistles than a new caddilac. he tried to load a dozen or so bags of concrete...said it sagged quite a lot and handled squirelly. automakers are making things that resemble trucks.

[TommyDodge]

I found an 87 Dakota on ebay in Ohio with a 4 cyl and a 5 speed with a cap that the guy wants $1500.00 or offer, am thinking of going to look at it and make an offer.
I am guessing that gas is never gonna be $2.50 a gallon again so since I don't drive either one of my Dodge Rams any more, I am going to sell them both, and use the Dakota for chores if I buy it
Tom

[Chewie]

That 4cyl will be the 2.2L with an aluminum head that was prone to warp. Great on mileage, though. I got 30 or so on the highway, and that's when I was younger and didn't care about wasting fuel.

[DrPepper]

Don't buy it for performance...

my 3.9 V6 QC is ok but I made some serious modifications to it. The 4 cyl trucks are very underpowered, don't expect to tow anything, and depending on the rear end consider 3:90 or 4:XX gears so you can get around town with it.
IMHO....
DrPepper

[Blisters]

l said it in the other post / l would not have bother with this board because even thou the Dak is considered mid-size / l consider it FULL-size because of the fact of the V8 motor and tranny and t-case and rearend are ALL the same as a full-size / basically its a Ram 1500 drivetrain in a smaller package


thats like the ramcharger and trailduster names added to the full size board / everybody knows there dodge trucks except the ONE person that asked

Gotta disagree. A 1500 will not fit in my standard 2-car garage with the wife's Grand Cherokee- too wide, can't open the doors to get in or out. The 1500 can take a standard 4' x 8' sheet of plywood flat on the bed, but the Dakota can't- too narrow, smaller body. Power doesn't make much of a factor- you can get less or more horsepower in any Dodge truck and have the opposite of the compared vehicle. "Full-size" means large-bodied.