Wheel recentering

[Aaron S]

Has anyone had the centers cut out of their split ring wheels and installed into a conventional rim? I am having some issues with the wheels on my 58 W300 and this is one of the options I'm considering.

When I bought the truck it vibrated badly, after new tires and a proper balance all was well, for awhile. Now its been about ten thousand miles and the vibration is back with a vengeance bordering on death wobble. After a few attempts at rebalancing had no noticeable effect it was discovered that my wheels have a considerable amount of roll out, some approaching 1/4". While these wheels have been deemed "bent", there is no visible sign of impact or deformation and I suspect they may have been manufactured this way.

I am planning to have the tires trued, which will help for a while but is not a long term solution as it is treating the symptom not the problem. I would like to get away from the split rings for the obvious reasons, but I cannot afford $500 a wheel for factory 19.5's or $260 a wheel from Stockton (it would be nice though). I would consider a reasonably priced set of factory 17.5's if some were available, but I am not holding my breath. If I had the centers cut out of my 17" split rings and installed into a conventional 17" rim I could continue using my current tires, which may or may not be worth it depending on what's left of them after they've been trued.

Suggestions? Comments? Is this a foolish idea or does it merit pursuing?

[mattsoldmopars]

Where did you see 19.5's sell for $500.00 each?? I have a few sets of those rims if they bring that kind of money, maybe I would/should sell a set??

Have you looked into buying a set of the 6 bolt rims found on Jeep M-715 trucks?? They have a slightly different off set then the stock 1958-1968 W300 rim, If I remember right (I measured them last year before I bought my first set of Jeep rims) it is only about a 1/4-3/8" The rest of the rim is pretty much the same. The only other differance I can see is the Jeep rims have welded in centers, and the stock W300 Dodge rim are riveted.

I have picked up 3 sets of the M-715 Jeep rims in the past year or so, and got them for $40-50 a rim. I myslef, actually prefer the Jeep rims for a few reasons. 1 they give the truck a little bit wider stance, 2 they are welded not riveted, which I think makes them stronger, and less chance of road crud to get in between the center/outer part of the rim, ie Rust. 3 they seem to be affordable if you can find them from someone like I did who switched to stockton rims, and no longer needs his original rims. I also picked up a set of 4 at a surplus dealer and paid $45.00 a rim.

The Jeep rim thing might not help you though (??) if your set on trying to get away from the split ring rims. And they are 16" rims so you would also have to buy new tires.

One other thought, if you did find someone with the proper equipment And Skills to do a job like taking the centers out of your rims and truing them so there would not be any vibrations at all, and putting them into new 17" outer rims,,, (let alone the price of the new outer 17" rim) I would have to guess that you could Easily have close to if Not more $$ wrapped up in the project then the new stockton rims would costs.

I know about 6 years ago, my Dad was restoring a 1963 Max-Wedge Plymouth, the Max-Wedge cars had 15" rims optional. His car came with them but were missing when he got the car. He found out that Mopar used the same centers in other cars, but outter part of the rim was different in these other cars. He found a source for the correct outter rims, same outter rims the factory would have used. So he bought the new outter rims he found, and and took the other rims with the correct centers for his car to 3 different custom rim shops.

The first 2 shops he went to would Not touch the job B/C of liability issues they said. The 3rd shop he went to makes rims for Nascar, they said that they could do the job, but they would have to make a custom jig, to make sure that the rims came out 100% true with no run-out. And they also wanted to run the job under the table/out the back door kind of thing, same reason as the 1st 2 shops did,, they didnt want something to happen down the road and have the liability. Anyhow long story short, my Dad had them do it B/C he wanted his car as close to original as he could get. The job ended up costing him a little over $1350.00 for 5 rims,, that was just for Labor and the jig they made,,,, and didnt include what he paid for his other rims.

A few of his buddys that were also doing the same type of cars, wanted the same rims after they saw my dads rims. My dad went back to the shop with 3 more sets of 5 rims to have them do the job, and they did them for $1150.00 per set of 5 this time around since they already had the jig.

All that aside,, I think I have seen a few Power Wagons at a rally or somewhere that had different outter rims, with Power Wagon centers, and I am sure that they are shops/farmers that could/would do the job cheaper then the place my Dad used. But my Dad is kind of a perfectionist, and his car didnt have any problem getting from 0-140 mph, and he didnt want any vibrations!! I am sure a Power Wagon that might see speeds of 55-60 might not have to be so perfect. My Dad once let me take his car out for a spin, and I got to run it from 0-130 mph,, it was a Blast and very smooth, and 0-130 happened in LESS then 12 seconds!!

Matt

[onetonwagon]

Call American Wheel here in Wa. state, at 509-543-9305. This guy does just what you're looking for as a business. He quoted me 175.00 a wheel to cut out the centers of your wheels and weld them in to his wheel blanks, with your offset measurement. I've seen his work, it's beautiful.

[Aaron S]

Thanks for the responses guys, some good thoughts there to chew over.

The last set of 19.5's I knew of for sale was $2500 for a set of five. I won't say I think it's way too much to ask but I will say it's more than I can afford.

I have the M715 rims on one of my other trucks, they look right and seem to be built a little sturdier than the PW rims. But my 17" tires are only a few years old and if I get rims that I will have to get new tires for they are going to be tubeless.

American Wheel is definitely an option I will have to look into. Even with shipping back and forth from Texas it may still be cheaper than Stockton.

This truck regularly sees highway speeds of 60-75 mph (usually in under 12 minutes), road trips of several hundred miles, and loads in excess of 2000 lbs (but generally not all of these at once). I don't abuse it but I do use it for tasks such as the manufacturer designed it for and I have to say it is one of the most useful pieces of equipment I have ever owned.

[maineSS]

I've looked into getting a set of recentered wheels for my FFPW and have found that no one will accept liability for highway use- if something fails, you're on your own. I ended up going the Yokohama way on split-ring rims with tubes, and so far it's working out for my 45 mph and under road trips. If something happened on public roads, it would still be my problem, as Yokohama would definitely not take any responsibility for tubeless tires mounted on split-ring rims with tubes. Marsh Racing Wheels have done M37 and PW recentering for offroad use, so you might want to check with them if you want to accept the liability for highway use.

[Ron in Indiana]

Aaron, I run 17" split rings on my 59 W200 at 60 mph + at times with no bad road manners. A couple of things not mentioned I'd like to throw into the mix. I'm assuming you have tight knuckles on your truck? No wear that would aggravate the situation? I can see the 1/4" run out causing a problem but is it on all 4 wheels? Another thing what tires are you using? I have Torvel tires on mine. I would check to see if the tire will mount properly on tubeless rims. I've heard the beads are different on some tires, not all for mounting on certain rims. I would suggest trying to locate another set of 17" split rings wheels. I got mine in 1999 at VPW. The liability issue is something to consider with modified rims.

[Aaron S]

The tires are Power King mud grips. I put them on brand new when I first got the truck and the ride was beautiful. Over the ten thousand miles or so I've driven the truck since then the vibration gradually appeared and then worsened. The front end is tight, tie rod, knuckles, everything is great. Front hubs checked true with a dial indicator. Heck, the truck only has about twenty five thousand miles on it, although the way it shakes now may partly explain why it was driven so little for fifty years. If this is going to end up costing me a mint to fix right I have just about decided to go with a commercial wheel size so I can run a more durable tire with a higher load rating. I suspect when I have a two yard load of road base on this thing it is pushing the limit of my eight ply Power Kings.

One a side note, it is snowing here today, which is a fairly rare occurrence in central Texas. If it keeps up like this there are going to be a lot of car wrecks tomorrow when everything is iced over. Many people here fail to grasp the concept of driving slower when it is slippery out, they can be fun to watch from the safety of a field or large parking lot. I will probably stay home and tend the wood stove.

[mattsoldmopars]

What size tires are the 17" tires you have? Where did you get them? How much? I've done some looking around here and have not found much available for the 17" rims.

Last summer I picked up this 1960 W300 out of Boise city Oklahoma, it has 17" rims on it, and the tires are a 7.00-17's I would like to find a set of traction tires for the truck, the ones on there now are highway tires and are not in the best of shape.

I would like to put taller tires on this truck as it has the 5.87 gears and the 7.00-17" tires on it now are not even 30' tall with the weight of the truck on them. The 9.00-16 tires I have on my 1958 W300 are 34" tall with the weight of the truck on it, the taller tire the better with this 1960 W300 because of the lower gears the truck has.

I had thought about putting a set of the M715 Jeep rims on this W300 with 9.00 16 power kings, but if 17" traction tires are available I would be interested in knowing more about them size, etc,,,?? Thanks Matt

[Aaron S]

The tires are a 7.50-17, and are not quite as tall as an average 9-16 tire, probably 32-33 inches. Less sidewall height makes for noticeably tighter handling. My local tire shop got these for me, I think they had a harder time finding the right tubes and flaps than the tires. I believe there is also a 17" traction tire made by Tornell that is available through Coker. I used to have a link to the Power King website but I can't find it now, the tires I have were listed on there the last time I checked but its been awhile so who knows. Another good place to check with is Wallace Wade Specialty Tires, their number is 1-800-666-8973.

I don't recall exactly what the tires themselves cost, but it seems like by the time I was done with five tires with tubes, flaps, mounting, and balancing the total was around $1,100, which is reasonable, all things considered.

[mattsoldmopars]

Aaron, thanks for the info. I think for now I am going to put some 9.00-16's on that truck, maybe to help some with the steep gears that truck has. That and my dad always said "1 in the hand is better then 2 in the bush" meaning I have a new set of 5 9.00-16 power kings that I could use on some of my Jeep rims, and that would save me having to spend $$ on new tires for the time being.

I would like to get his truck on the road as soon as I can, and maybe later this year I will look into the 17" tires more.

Do you know the dates for the west Tx spring rally yet? I talked to Mark (aka Mac) last week he said they didn't have the dates nailed down yet. I would like to have this blue 1960 W300 of mine ready for a rally soon, and I have been wanting to go to the west Tx's rally for few years. I would like to see your truck when I am there.

Matt

[maineSS]

One thing to keep in mind if you get your wheels recentered is keeping the centerline of the tire in the same place the original rims had it. There's a little thing called "scrub radius" that can cause some truly awful steering problems if you go too far in the positive or negative direction, along with greatly decreased wheel bearing life.....

[Aaron S]

If Mark doesn't have the date for the rally nailed down then I'm afraid I can't be of much more specific help... since we've been going out there the rally has been timed to coincide with Alpine's Cinco de Mayo celebration. If this holds true again this year that should put it on the first or second weekend of May. I hope you make it out, it is always good to meet new Power Wagon folks. I have been wanting to make it back to Colorado with one of my trucks for a few years, y'all have such great backroads up there... the perfect place to be in the middle of August when it is 112 degrees here.

[Rodney]

Wheel recentering

Spoke to a guy at this outfit http://www.diamondracingwheels.com/ a few years ago. He offered to weld tubeless outeres to my M37 budd centers.