W500 donor cab options?

[Doc Dave]

After admiring Power Giants for many years I have taken the plunge. Leon B told me about one in PA, and I bought it today, a 1960 W500 PG.
The price was right; the truck has the M72 Warn hubs in very good condition on it, has an MU2 winch with factory extensions, as well as the valuable power take off for it. Also a brake booster that looks to be rebuildable. The 318 engine looks like it could be revived with a little work.
The frame rails are in good shape. A few of the cross members are a little rusty/thin.
The cab is my main concern. The cab floor in particular is pretty rotten, I would like to transplant a better cab rather than taking the time to try and repair this one, although I know it could be done.
A few questions:
1. Am I right is thinking that a 58-60 D300 or W300 donor cab would work here, as well as a D500 (from again 58-60)?
2. Is it true the above mentioned 300 and 500 cabs were the same and only the front bolt on fenders were different?
3. I know of a frame/axles set from a W500 for parts sale that was from a Sweptline W500 model. Is the frame in the Sweptline the same as the PG?
Thanks,
Dave, the new PG owner!

[Gordon Maney]

I would think 1-ton and up would work, but hopefully someone else will come along.

[Doc Dave]

That was my understanding too, Gordon.
I am hoping the many people here who are knowledgeable about PG's chime in on what I asked and any other advice they can give me. For example I would think that the 318 LA ( I did not see scalloped edge valve covers) is somewhat marginal for such a big truck - power wise? What about a 360 with an NP540 or a bigger block v8?

[mattsoldmopars]

Doc,

The cabs are all the same from a D100-D900 and W100-W500 for their specific years. (with the exception a few few models in 1959, but since that does not apply to your 1960 W500, we will not get into those differences) The 1958 Cabs have a different floor pan, and dash layout then the 1959 & 1960 cabs. The 1959 & 1960 cabs are basically the same with only a few minor details that most people would not even know about.

So you can get a cab for your 1960 W500, from a 1960 D100 pickup through a D900 truck. Or any W100-W500 truck also. Most model 1959 cabs would work also, same dash layout, etc.

I have a few real clean (no rust out) 1960 cabs, here in Colorado, that would save you a ton of work, if you could figure out how to get one to you, maybe Jim Hauls, he goes within 30 miles of my house, when on I-80 in Nebraska.

Some people think that the WDX type power wagon is under powered with only a 230 flat head. But the 5.83 gears are it's saving grace. Well I would think the 6.88 gears in the W500's would apply the same.

Someone once told me that if a 318 would not do the job I wanted it to, then a 360 sure would not be of much more help. Most years the LA 318 and the 360 were offered there was only a 10-15 HP difference in the two. The person that told me that was comparing stock to stock (so all bets are off if you plan to built the P out of it) he said you need more power then the two small blocks offer then go get a truck with a big block.

I used to own a 1959 W500 with a 413, I didn't put a lot of miles on it the few years I owned it,, but never thought it was lacking in the power department, but I never had a W500 with a small block to compare it to.

Matt

[iranch]

W500's

To add to Matt's post. The frames are not the same, the PG frames curve and swoop all over the place and the Sweptline era frames are more or less straight.

The only good substitute for a PG W500 frame is a PG W500 frame.

[Doc Dave]

Matt and Dennis,
Thank you for your comments and advice. Dennis, good info on frame, I will check the year of the one in the PWA classified.
As to the cab I am interested in a cab you have Matt. Please contact me about it including some pics if possible. You can email me at dlang4d(no spam)hughes.net. Of course replace the no spam with the at symbol.
Good thought about Jim Hauls.
Dave

[Gordon Maney]

Given the weight of the truck, and if you want to pull or haul something with it, a 440 would be the thing.

[Doc Dave]

Yes,
I have heard the 440 has plenty of power/torque.
Or what about a 6BT Cummins?
A neighbor of mine needed help yesterday with some logging. He had cut down several large poplar trees, each probably 2 1/2-3 feet in diameter and had 8 logs down in a creek bottom. He could not get pull them out with his older 2wd open diff tractor from up on the top. I backed my 2001 CTD truck back to about 10 feet of the edge and ran several lengths of chain back to the logs, and they came right out. The neighbor and his farmer friend were very impressed! They both drove gas trucks and had never seen a diesel in operation.

[712edf]

Looking for this?

Jeff put these pics in an older thread.

Bucky

[Gordon Maney]

Yes,
I have heard the 440 has plenty of power/torque.
Or what about a 6BT Cummins?
A neighbor of mine needed help yesterday with some logging. He had cut down several large poplar trees, each probably 2 1/2-3 feet in diameter and had 8 logs down in a creek bottom. He could not get pull them out with his older 2wd open diff tractor from up on the top. I backed my 2001 CTD truck back to about 10 feet of the edge and ran several lengths of chain back to the logs, and they came right out. The neighbor and his farmer friend were very impressed! They both drove gas trucks and had never seen a diesel in operation.

That is a great idea, I was not certain you wanted that much expense.

[Doc Dave]

I am undecided somewhat. From a purely power standpoint that is my choice.
A less expensive option would be a big block Dodge.
I looked on Ebay and there is a vintage 413 for about $1k. Also some 440's at similar prices.
What are the pros and cons for a 413 vs. a 440 other than displacement being a little bigger?
I think I will start looking around for different engines. If I can find an early (89-92) 6BT (non electronic and non intercooled) for a reasonable price, I may get it.
If not, then maybe a big block Dodge.
I have the luxury now of patience, as I am going to start on the M37 this winter as to actual work. I already have a 4BT for that one. Interestingly, 4BT's are getting more expensive now than 6BT's.

[Doc Dave]

Jeff put these pics in an older thread.

Bucky

Nice pics Bucky, thanks!

[Gordon Maney]

Parts for the 440 may be more available and lower priced than for the 413, though I admit I am not sure. Castings, anyway.

[712edf]

It should be noted (and was already dicussed in detail in a thread on one of the sweptline sites) that the 440's in trucks & cars weren't all that dissimilar. The main difference being the trucks didn't get them until 74 during the smog era. Of course many peripherial things like oil pans & water pumps were different.

As for 413's, the truck 413 were an industrial motor, had total different heads/manifolds/water pump/gear drive rev rotation camshaft/etc.

The 413 that came in passenger cars (1960ish-1965) was very similar to the 440.

I'd go 440, just for parts availability & those few extra cubes. If you go Cummins get a complete donor truck if possible.

Bucky

[Aaron S]

The RB big blocks and 6BT Cummins are both great motors. The other one I would consider is an early Chrysler hemi (331, 354, 392). It will cost more than a 440 but be a more straight forward swap than a Cummins (and possibly even the big block) because it will fit to your existing small block bellhousing. Flywheels are readily available from aftermarket suppliers. Lots of power even in stock form plus the added "cool" factor if you're into that sort of thing.