1957 9.75 rear brake drum....

[DrPepper]

I have come to the point where enthusiasm has turned to despiration...!
I have tried to remove a rear brake drum for over 6 months, built my own puller because none of the borrowed / rented ones would fit the odd deep drum configuration. Heated the hub with #3 tip on the Oxy.Acey. until it smoked many times, applied Wax, penetrating oils hot and cold, gentle massage with a 3# hammer, drove it around the driveway with the center nut loose just to put some flex on it, it is still solid as the day I got it.

Someone wrote they cut a drum off, what troubles me is can I get a replacement if I have to go that route? VPW doesn't have a listing for my drum, I think I tried NAPA and they didn't have a listing....? I know the seal is shot, but the shoes and cylinder need to be replaced also. It does no good without a drum to go back on the axle. Anyone know where a new or good used drum to match this one might be for sale???

[Ron in Indiana]

Sounds like you've got one stuck puppy there. I know you said you've tried pullers but were any of them a 3 legged puller that bolt to the wheel studs? I have one and it was the only way to get the last one off I had stuck. I'm surprised the wax didn't do it. Mine wicked the wax the entire length of the axle. I could ship you my puller if you can't find one and would like to try it. Unless you find another truck I doubt you'll find a new drum. Cutting the old one off will still leave the center stuck to the shaft I would think. The puller I have has a wing that allows beating with a hammer to really put the pull in the shaft. The thing I worried about was ruining the end of the axle.

[DrPepper]

Hi Ron, thanks for the offer...

I borrowed Greg's (WDX Belvidere) 3 leg puller, with the ring and arms that line up nice on the wheel bolts. Problem is the axle nut is set back behind the wheel studs (not like 2WD) so the puller has to reach further than the puller center bolt length, so then you have to add a spacer. I never found an acceptable way to install it that gave a good straight pull. The puller I built (see pix) is an old broken wheel, I cut the center out, put the bridging across and the nut is under the bridge within 2" inchs of the axle end. Next I'm going to go to a bigger bolt as the one I have is the same size as the axle and starting to look a bit strained. [Understatement]

As to the wax, I heated the drum center up until the wax melted and ran easily, tried to get it right at the drum/axle with the nut off. Went thru 2 or 3 tea candles and don't know what did or not get into the shaft. Made a nice pile of wax on the floor before I put a pan under it.

The good side to cutting the drum off is, the hub will be exposed and I can slice (carefully) one side (or both) and crack it off the axle shaft. I guess I'll start asking some yards if they have a used drum for this application.

Thanks Ron, happy holiday!!!

[old red]

Hydraulic Puller?

Dr. Pepper,
Maybe not all is lost yet!

I once had a tractor hub that was held on by a nut that was torqued to 1000 ft lbs. It took a twelve foot cheater to loosen up that nut! When I got that nut loose I then realized that no threaded puller was going to pull the hub off of the tapered axel shaft. So I fashioned up a 6 ton bottle jack puller. I created a cradle that went around hub & held the jack so the ram pushed against the shaft. Between that bottle jack cradle & 16 lb sledge hammer "tapping" on the side of the hub it came off like a shot gun blast! I was smart enought to leave the nut threaded on end of the axel shaft with about a 1/4" of play for the hub to move. When it broke loose the jack and cradle were thrown about 12' into a wall. The hub only moved a 1/4" of an inch!

Anyway can you modify your puller to hold a 1 or 2 ton bottle jack? Back the nut off so it is flush with the end of the axle shaft. Make some sort of a cap to go over that for the ram of the jack to push against. Apply full force of jack if necessary. Alternate pumping jack and rapping on side of drum. Use a large enough hammer to "shock" the taper joint. Have fun & remember not to allow bystanders to stand down range of the pulling force!

Hope this helps!

[DrPepper]

Red, you have my attention....

I do not have a bottle jack, so it might be time to go shopping. I didn't think about a hydraulic cylinder...
Time for some thought and design modifications....
Thanks,
DrPepper

[old red]

Modifications can be fun!

Dr. Pepper,

Thanks for the opportunity! I'm sure I will be running into stubborn hubs and stuck joints too. As a newbie, in the Power Wagon Advertizer forum with folks such as yourself who have much experience, it is good to have something to offer.

I have not really started anything yet on my trucks. So I have no direct experience to offer. However, I have restored a few tractors, rebuilt some engines. Currently working with my son on his 85' Chevy 2500 4x4 pickup, tar to top of cab restoration. Hunting trip & snow plow truck.

It appears that your puller has a flange that offers strength. I would think that 1" x 2" x 1/8" wall tubing or material of simular strength would be strong enough to run a couple of cross members to support the jack. 4 legs out of the same material would be required to mount the cross members to the flange. The goodness of your puller is that it bolts to the hub, thus offers more safety and ease of use. Is that realistic to fashion up?

[DrPepper]

12 ton Hydraulic puller, what am I missing...?

Hi all,
Well Red you were an inspiration with the Hydraulic jack idea. So, I did some digging around and Harbor Freight (love em or hate um, they do come up with some interesting stuff) sells a 12 ton hydraulic puller.

Cleaned off the old puller metal from the wheel center and welded (3) 1/2" tabs onto it centered between the wheel bolts. Replaced the pointed press center with a bolt head so it would be flat on the axle end. First try it crushed the exposed threads on the bolt, never moved the axle.

Just tried it again, solid flat bolt head with a collar under it. Put some pressure to it, warmed it up a bit with my #3 torch tip, beat on it with a punch..... nothing.

Okay....what am I missing...???
Brake shoes are free, I can rotate the drum by hand, it's an 8.75 axle with a tapered axle shaft, nut is loose and washer is removed so there is room for it to let go with out killing someone. The new puller sits as perfect as I've ever seen a puller sit right over the axle shaft. Dead straight push on the shaft end.

DrPepper

[Leon in PA]

Time to start looking for a new full float axle assembly

Of course they are a little scarce

[Ron in Indiana]

You have one stuck puppy there but I'm not telling you anything new. LOL I'll assume you've tried every penetrating oil know to man. A home made mix of automatic tranny fluid and acetone is supposed to creep where others don't. I know you tried the wax and I would have thought that should have done it. With 12 tons on it the only thing left is blasting. Can't imagine it's that stuck but anything's possible. There is a product called Freeze Off??? I think Napa sells it that's supposed to do the opposite of heat and contract the metal. Maybe a heat/cool session to break things loose? I'm giving you everything I can think of.

[old red]

Puller Looks Good!

Dr. Pepper,

The puller that you fashioned up looks well thought out. As Ron suggested the freeze off may help. I have used that on rusty Minnesota bolts and have had some success.

The threads that were crushed were they on the pusher bolt or the axel end threads? What is the size of the pusher bolt?

Sorry about not making my post more clear about shocking the taper. I had to pound on the side of the hub with a sledge before it let go. I would think that good solid raps from a 5-8 pound hammer (heavier if need be) from the side of the brake drum adjacent to face of the drum is the target for the blows. Along with pulling pressure apply good heavy raps & rotate drum 1/4 turn & repeat. Expect a few complete rotations of shocking the taper before it lets go. Make sure the axle tube is well supported opposite of the hammer blows with a sturdy jack stand or blocking as close to the brake drum as possible so the force of the hammer blows are safe & solid.

Tomorrow morning I will go out to my truck and look to see if a guy can shock the the taper at an angle off the back edge of the drum too.

[DrPepper]

Thanks Red...

Ron and you have talked about this Freeze-Off and I haven't had time to dig it up, that's next. The thought of major surgury on the rear end is not appealing.
The pusher bolt I crushed is marked 8.8 metric (~1/2"NC) and it only crushed because I didn't have anthing between the head and the ram. I used it because the puller comes with a sharp cone shaped insert threaded into the ram, the cone looked like trouble to me. My second try I had a similar bolt with a small steel collar to support the bolt head and it worked fine. Of course after the second try the puller decided not to pump up anymore...and I didn't use a cheater on it.

As to the malletizing, the puller adaptor I made is a center section of the wheel and bolts solid to the drum. I hit the steel rather than my precious cast iron drum with my favorite ignition adjusting ballpeen ;-).

There is a jack-stand behind the drum, amazing it is totally hidden. The floor jack is just sitting there. I trust no jacks..and stands aren't far behind.
DrPepper

[Ron in Indiana]

I think it needs the shock of striking the end of the axle. The pressure is fine but like a tie rod end it needs a smack to get it to pop. With the 3 leg puller I have and used it is possible to strike the threaded shaft. I did have to make an extension bolt as you have done since I was all out of thread on the puller. Once I had it a tight as humanly possible with the striking wing I used the torch to heat the drum at the axle. Two swift smacks with a 2# hammer and I heard that magic POP. Offer still stands to ship it to you for the cost of shipping if you can't find one. This is the style I have http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gedore-Wheel...item2c3ff80805

[old red]

Old Trucks & Tractors.......

Dr.Pepper,

They have a lot in common like corrosion & time & "special tools". As Ron said "you've got one stuck puppy". Who knew it was this stuck? I like your approach of trying undo the joint rather than just cutting it a part. Basically we are just trying to force apart the adheasion of two corroded surfaces.

It will come apart.

Is your hydraulic puller is still good to go... ?

I have put as much as 20 tons of force on 1-1/2" diameter leader pins pushing them into 2" thick die shoes with .001 of interfearance fit. The corrosion is the interfearance fit in this case.

Your caution about cracking the cast iron drum is well warranted. The key here is sending shock to the joint. Can you get your hands on some 6061 aluminum bar stock? Get a 2' to 3' foot length of 1/4 x 2". Use one end as handle (use duct tape & cloth to insulate) and the other end to pound against.


If it ends up in surgery I would suggest carefully plasma cutting 2 access holes (front & rear) in the brake support plate to gain access to remove the bearing retainer nuts. Pull the shaft & hub/drum/brake assembly out of the axle tube. Then use a good hydraulic press & push the shaft out by supporting out side of brake drum. Possibly bolt up a rim? Not sure if the lug studs are strong enough or not?

I'm pulling for ya :)

[Leon in PA]

Any luck getting the drums off?

I know of a truck in a yard an hour from me with a complete axle. If you are interested I could try to get that one apart and see what they want for it

[DrPepper]

Hi Leon

thanks for the offer, I have talked to Eric in Wisconsin who offered to dig up some axles he knows of within a few hours drive of me. This whole project went on hold for this year due to my mother in law who passed away in July. We are playing catch up on everything now.

I have some thinking to do about how I am proceeding and it could all change with the next try to remove the hub.

Thanks again,
DrPepper