NP435 noisy 3rd gear

[plymsatellite66]

Recently I've been putting some pretty decent interstate miles on my 67 W200. On my last trip, I noticed 3rd gear is making a "rattling" noise. The sounds quiets to the point in 4th gear that if I wasn't trying to listen for it, I would probably miss it. 1st gear and 2nd gear both seem to be operating fine to me. I drained the fluid and replaced it last night with fresh 80w90. The old fluid is thinner than 80w90 so I'm not sure if it had broken down or was a lighter weight fluid to begin with. I reached as far into the drain hole with my finger and found nothing laying on the bottom and the magnetic drain plug only had a light covering of shavings on it.

Any help would be appreciated. I still need to read up on how to work on the internals of this tranny, but hoping I can remove the top cover with the transmission still in the truck and get a look at what's going on inside.

thanks for the help
Corey

[chriscase]

Third gear puts the most radial load on the bearing between the input shaft and the out put shaft. Fourth gear the least. Minimal load in first, a bit higher in second.

So, it sounds like that bearing is your noisy one.

The fresh oil might help. Many good bearings are noisy without adequate oil. That particular bearing is the easiest to oil starve too. Plus, it is not possible to inspect without a complete tear down, so no point to trying an in chassis inspection.

[plymsatellite66]

Chris,

thanks for the information. This will be the first manual transmission I've had apart so the inside operations are a bit foreign to me, although I have read they are fairly simple to rebuild.

I had truck pulls scheduled Friday, Saturday and Sunday, but I think I'll skip the Saturday and Sunday pulls as one is 100 miles away the the other is 150 miles away. My pull on Friday is only 3 miles away and until I can get my clutch beefed up a bit I'm pulling in low 1st so I think I'll chance it. Looks like a tear down and rebuild is in order.

thanks again
Corey

[Big_AL]

RE: Noisy gears.

Good luck with that Cory I'd be interested in seeing how that rebuild is, I am going to rebuild the NP435 in my '68 W200, the 3rd. gear syncro slider broke in mine. I ordered a rebuild kit from Novak Adapters in Logan UT. the rebuild kit is like $247.00 with Shipping, kit is $230.00. they specialize in the Ford NP435's for jeep conversions, but have the Dodge kits available. You can find them online but they don't sell the Dodge kits online, I callled them, they are sending it out. Novak Adapters435-753-2513 Tech877-602-1500 Sales I will be pulling mine out in a few days, maybe we can compare notes, my first time rebuilding one too.

[plymsatellite66]

Big Al,

I actually got lucky and in my search for a large diameter input shaft found an entire NP435 out of a medium duty truck at one of my local yards. I pulled the top cover to look over the gears and took a chance on running it. It's a little quieter and hasn't gotten much worse. I found that Lucas oil stabilizer really helped to quiet things down just to get me by. Now that pulling season is over I'll begin tearing down the motor, tranny and transfer case for freshening up. Also on the list for this winter is to replace the Dana 60 with a 70, finished out the last four pulls of the season by breaking 5 axles, and the small knuckle 44 front with a large knuckle.

I've meant to have pictures of all the work I've done to the truck, but with working on it between pulls there just never seems to be enough time. Over the winter I won't be as rushed and hope to get some decent photos.

What all is included in the kit you purchased from Novak? When I couldn't find a Dodge kit on their site I simply moved on and ended up getting a bearing and seal kit from a local parts house for $100. Of course the mainshaft bearing looks to be the only one not included, but I found one for $50 at our local welding / bolt / belts / bearings and any other can't find it anywhere else store, but he even had it on the shelf. The parts are all sitting on the shelf waiting to be installed, I have thought about ordering synchros though, which I think might be all that I'm missing froma full kit.

[Big_AL]

Sonds good Cory, I know I didn't see the dodge kits either, but I emailed them, asked them if the Kit was the same for Dodges, as the Ford? Jer replied back to me, that they are different, and that have have them, just not available for ordering on line. I had to call them and order it, is all? The kit has all of the gaskets, and bearings and syncros. Give them a call at that number I listed in my last post.
Every now and then, our local fair puts on truck pulls, I thought about doing it, but I know my old geezer might bust something as it it was used an abused by its fromer owner, and as far as I can tell nothing had ever been rebuilt except for the former 383 (original motor)? After this rebuild and maybe the NP 201 rebuild I would give it a whirl?

So have fun,
AL

[plymsatellite66]

Al,

I'll give them a call and get a set of synchro's ordered as I'm sure that's the only wear part I don't have ready to install.

As far as pulling your truck, I wouldn't be worried about the NP435 or NP201, both are very stout units. The specific rules of the pull would be what I'd look at. Around here, North Central Iowa, the local fair pulls usually have a bone stock class. My truck fits the rules and they're close so I usually pull for the fun of it. The sled is usually geared a little lighter for these trucks and I've only seen a couple late eighties to mid nineties trucks break, but they were half ton trucks. Spider gears in one truck and I'm not sure what happened to the other.

The pulling club I pull with in Mid to South Central Iowa has a stock class that's a little more competitive and therefore a little tougher. 99% of the trucks are 3/4 or one ton and small blocks don't have much of a chance. Big blocks are ruling the class and it's nice to say Dodges are usually at the top. Last years points champion was a 74 W200 with a stout 383 / 727. This year there's a late 70's W200 neck and neck with him running a 440 / NP435. The same guy also has another 70's W200 he's been pulling while he puts it together. My 120,000 mile 440 with worked 915 heads, a small solid comp cam, cast iron intake and headers running the 435 / 201 has been keeping up and even beating them occasionally.

My truck spent it's life before I got it as a wrecker for a service shop so I'm sure it's seen some stress. I broke my spider gears early in the year when I was still running a 318, welded them and been doing great up until 4 pulls ago when I started breaking axles in the 60. The Dodge guys told me I'm finally getting up to the power level where I've exceeded the Dana 60.

With your setup, if you found a light class like the local fairs around here, it would surprise me if anything broke, but it's still a gamble. Talking with the other Dodge guys, as long as your U joints are in good shape, the next weak point would be Dana 60 axle shafts. The 74 W200 is running a 60, but upgraded to Moser axles two years ago and hasn't had a problem since.

[Big_AL]

HEH, sounds like your having fun! Yeah I might enter it, next time they do it here? I recently had replaced all of the U joints so they are stout.

My truck was bought right here in Bishop, and was a work truck for the guy's father whom I bought it from. It hauled a lot of stuff and towed a lot of equipment. A lot of wood, I can haul a whole cord and a half of fire wood on it and the 440, it has in it now, doesn't even break a sweat.

I guess, from what I was told, they wore out the pick up body on it and took it off and built the flat bed on it, that it has now. wich is really handy.

These trucks are truely beasts! I couldn't replace it with anything newer that could do the work it does.