questions about np540

[712edf]

Ok here's the plan. I have a 1966 W500 with poly & 540 (maybe 541) 5-speed transmission. Of course that's with the old school hydraulic clutch set-up which has bellhousing motor mounts along with a center front engine mount.....I am doing away with the 66 cab & going with a 70's crew cab. Also out goes the poly & hopefully the hydraulic clutch/bell, in goes a 440 with a mechanical clutch bell. Not concerning steering column issues involved with this swap, my questions are as follows:

Does 540 have 10 spline input, 23 spline input like the 435, or something else?

Do 435's & 540's accept same bellhousing? In other words will a big block mechanical bellhousing from a 435 fit a 540?

Assuming a mechanical bellhousing can be attached to the 540, is there a provision on the tail of the transmission to use a rear mount, same as post 1968 435 uses?

What are the ratios in the 540? Is 541 an OD version?

If I must retain a hydraulic bell/clutch, what flywheels (172 tooth?) will work behind an internally balanced 440?

Can a center front motor mount be used with a 1967 440 block?

The truck is several hundred miles away. Trying to come up with an attack plan.

Thanks

Bucky

[Gordon Maney]

Does 540 have 10 spline input, 23 spline input like the 435, or something else?

Do 435's & 540's accept same bellhousing? In other words will a big block mechanical bellhousing from a 435 fit a 540?

Assuming a mechanical bellhousing can be attached to the 540, is there a provision on the tail of the transmission to use a rear mount, same as post 1968 435 uses?

What are the ratios in the 540? Is 541 an OD version?

If I must retain a hydraulic bell/clutch, what flywheels (172 tooth?) will work behind an internally balanced 440?

Can a center front motor mount be used with a 1967 440 block?

Bucky

I have a 1967 W300 that was formerly equipped with a 318 and NP435. It now has a 440 with NP540 in overdrive form. I use a front mount and mounts under the bellhousing. It is a hydraulic bellhousing.

I am uncertain about the spline count, but parts were easily available at NAPA at the time. A big block bellhousing formerly fitted with the 435 should work with the 540. I think you will find it is drilled to do so.

Any tail mount I believe you will find is a function of a rear bearing retainer configuration.

I am unable to offer descriptive information on the flywheel, as I bought mine from someone who knew it would work for my project. Be sure you get the right bolt count, however. Most will be 6-bolt. Some 8.

Overdrive was a possibility in 540, 541, and 542 transmissions. None of those numbers denotes overdrive. They were all five speeds, to make that simple point.

[712edf]

So a front mount will work on a 440? I don't have an issue using a hydraulic bell. Its just that I'd have to get a BB bell & new flywheel, plus everything between the clutch pedal & bell & adapt it to a Lifestyle cab. I already have all the parts to go the mechanical route, but would have to figure out a way to support the tail of the 540 & get a new clutch disk to fit the 540 input. I am almost certain my 1" 23 spline disk for the 435 won't fit. Thanks Gordon. I am glad there is someone out there with a 440/540 set-up.

My easiest route would be to install my 435 in place of the 540, and add the rear crossmember too.

Bucky

[Gordon Maney]

So a front mount will work on a 440? I don't have an issue using a hydraulic bell. Its just that I'd have to get a BB bell & new flywheel, plus everything between the clutch pedal & bell & adapt it to a Lifestyle cab. I already have all the parts to go the mechanical route, but would have to figure out a way to support the tail of the 540 & get a new clutch disk to fit the 540 input. I am almost certain my 1" 23 spline disk for the 435 won't fit. Thanks Gordon. I am glad there is someone out there with a 440/540 set-up.

My easiest route would be to install my 435 in place of the 540, and add the rear crossmember too.

Bucky

I would prefer the mechanical linkage parts, so I would stay with that setup if I could.

I would urge you to either use a front mount and a bellhousing mount or a pair of engine side mounts and a transmission tail mount. You need one of your mounting points to be spread wide. If you hang that whole assembly from a single front mount and a single rear mount it will be unstable and greatly stress the mounts.

Perhaps you need to consider installing side mounts under the engine, if you feel compelled to use the rear transmission mount.

[712edf]

I would prefer the mechanical linkage parts, so I would stay with that setup if I could.

I would urge you to either use a front mount and a bellhousing mount or a pair of engine side mounts and a transmission tail mount. You need one of your mounting points to be spread wide. If you hang that whole assembly from a single front mount and a single rear mount it will be unstable and greatly stress the mounts.

Perhaps you need to consider installing side mounts under the engine, if you feel compelled to use the rear transmission mount.

Good point Gordon on the mounts. Don't want my 440 flopping around in there. I shouldn't have trouble using wide front/ center rear mounts, as I already have that (crossmembers) in the later series frame.

Is there much benefit of the 540 over the 435? I am familar with driving the 435, which in essence is a 3-speed with a seldom used granny low. I need to check the 5-speed out to see if its a OD version. OD would be nice with the 6.8 axles, but I also intend on using taller tires than what already came on the W500.

Locally there is an early 60's D500 with a rear PTO winch, that's sitting at the rear of an oilfield equipment place. I'll be looking it over to see if its 4 or 5 speed. Might be of some use to me.

Bucky

[Gordon Maney]

Few 5-speeds were overdrive versions. Most were direct.

Imagine the shift pattern. Direct is always in the same place on those. Read that again. If you pull it into the position [you believe to be] for 5th, it will be direct. Whether it is overdrive or not.

the 4th position is the overdrive position on an overdrive 540. It is backwards. People miss that when examining them in salvage yards.

[712edf]

I follow what you are saying. Not having the vehicle (my W500) here, I can't readily look at it nor am I familar with the 5-speed pattern. On the 435 shift pattern, Low(1st) and 3rd are forward (shifter positioned away from seat), while 2nd, 4th & Reverse are with the shifter pulled back towards the seat. How does a 540 compare with that? Can I tell by looking at the pattern on the shifter knob is a transmission is OD?

Is this what a 540 shift pattern resembles?

1 3 5
2 4 R

Is this what a 540 OD shift pattern looks like?

1 3 4
2 5 R

Not trying to be a pest, just really curious & fascinated about these transmissions.

Thanks

Bucky

[Gordon Maney]

I follow what you are saying. Not having the vehicle (my W500) here, I can't readily look at it nor am I familar with the 5-speed pattern. On the 435 shift pattern, Low(1st) and 3rd are forward (shifter positioned away from seat), while 2nd, 4th & Reverse are with the shifter pulled back towards the seat. How does a 540 compare with that? Can I tell by looking at the pattern on the shifter knob is a transmission is OD?

Is this what a 540 shift pattern resembles?

1 3 5
2 4 R

Is this what a 540 OD shift pattern looks like?

1 3 4
2 5 R

Not trying to be a pest, just really curious & fascinated about these transmissions.

Thanks

Bucky

Positions 4 and 5 are in a straight line, as positions 1 and 2 are in your layout. It is 3:30 AM here and I am working to finish an issue. I don't have time to go look now. I apologize for that. I may be able to look later today to verify.

Imagine....

1 2 4 R
x 3 5 x

The x characters are simply placeholders in this layout. No gears there.

Notice the 4 and 5 characters. This is the pattern for a 5th direct. You pull the lever back toward the seat for 5th. You are locking the mainshaft to the input shaft.

The overdrive is like this

1 2 5 R
x 3 4 x

If you pull the lever straight back to the 4 position in this alternative layout you are still locking the mainshaft to the input shaft, so it is still direct. It is just that it is 4th gear now, in stead of 5th. To go to the 5th over position you push the lever away from the seat into the 5 position shown here.

It is an unusual pattern. If you are new to an OD version of one of these you have to be thinking about the pattern or you will not succeed, as you can see; you might accidentally shift from 3 to 5.

Asking questions is not being a pest. It is the entire point of forums.

[712edf]

Thank you Gordon. I would have never guessed that layout for shifting, other than 1st. HA!

Bucky

[Gordon Maney]

When I first got my transmission from a small salvage yard specializing in trucks, the guy drew the pattern on the knob in yellow, junk yard ink.

"You'll have problems if I don't," he said.

Looking at the 540, 541, and 542 transmissions, it is why people find them on the ground and mis-identify them. They pull it into what they believe to be fifth and it is direct. They reject the transmission and move on.

[greg rider]

The overdrive is like this

1 2 5 R
x 3 4 x

Gordon, you have exactly given the shift pattern in my 1951 Mack. It is real fun when I am loaded and need to do a quick (LOL) shift from 1st to 2nd. The tranny in the mack is a Fuller 5-A-330. The nice thing is that I can do a real smooth and fast 4 to 5 shift.