The 230 Headerfold project

[JimmieD]

The heat riser is the stock item in the passenger side exhaust manifold on V8's, and in the only manifold on inlines. It's just a flapper valve controlled by a thermostatic spring.

A websearch would be best on pre-oiler or pre-luber. There's a few out there. I'll see if I still have some links....

[John Waak]

Below is a link to Canton Accusump. Lots of basic information there on pre-oilers. The idea is to raise oil up to operating pressure before cranking the engine over.

http://www.accusump.com/

My 1980 Jeep had an interesting manifold preheater set up. Actually it was ridiculous, and minimally effective. Some flimsy sheetmetal shaped a chamber around the upper end of the manifold. This chamber trapped air that was heated by the hot exhaust traveling through the manifold. A piece of 3" hose ran from the forward end of the warm air chamber up and into the air cleaner. Supposedly, and barring any air leaks in the system, warm air was now drawn into the carburetor. With lots of fiddling, it kind-a-worked.

[MoparNorm]

The heat riser is the stock item in the passenger side exhaust manifold on V8's, and in the only manifold on inlines. It's just a flapper valve controlled by a thermostatic spring.

A websearch would be best on pre-oiler or pre-luber. There's a few out there. I'll see if I still have some links....

...and, I've never seen a flapper older than 4 years old that wasn't oxidized shut, or open....

[monkeymissile]

another idea?

seems to me that a system that relies on the exhaust manifold to heat the air/fuel mix is going to take a little while to do so especially on a cold day, thereby not being as effective as something that was pre-heating the intake manifold. What about some sort of heat tape? How hot do you want it to get?
Maybe another idea would be to make an aluminum or copper heatsink to suck some heat off the headers during the winter and direct it under the intake manifold.

[MoparNorm]

The 318 Poly intake had a "heat tube passage" that crossed mid point, under the carb, from exhaust manifold to exhaust manifold.
Nearly every one of those manifolds, that I have seen, has been cracked at that point from the excessive heat and carbon build-up.
In a matter of minutes, most motors are close to 200 degrees, a simple heat riser to the air cleaner air horn has worked well enough for nearly every vehicle for over 60 years, are we obsessing here over a non-issue???

[monkeymissile]

The 318 Poly intake had a "heat tube passage" that crossed mid point, under the carb, from exhaust manifold to exhaust manifold.
Nearly every one of those manifolds, that I have seen, has been cracked at that point from the excessive heat and carbon build-up.
In a matter of minutes, most motors are close to 200 degrees, a simple heat riser to the air cleaner air horn has worked well enough for nearly every vehicle for over 60 years, are we obsessing here over a non-issue???

Norm,
me thinks you're right. I know I'd rather simplify this project rather than overly complexificate it (that's a technical term......)

[maineSS]

Here's a site with an interesting take on the Tri-Y (it agrees with me!)-www.primatechmotorsports.com/products/pontohc/ohchdr.htm - their Tri-Y is 6 into 3 into 1 vs everyone else's "split" header (2 groups of 3 into 2 into 1). They claim that combining a split header into 1 shows a gain, it would be interesting to see how it compares to the "true" 6 cyl Tri-Y.

[monkeymissile]

Here's a site with an interesting take on the Tri-Y (it agrees with me!)-www.primatechmotorsports.com/products/pontohc/ohchdr.htm - their Tri-Y is 6 into 3 into 1 vs everyone else's "split" header (2 groups of 3 into 2 into 1). They claim that combining a split header into 1 shows a gain, it would be interesting to see how it compares to the "true" 6 cyl Tri-Y.

mSS,
I remember stumbling across this site. I'm curious about what they eventually come up with on their 6-3-1 design.

[maineSS]

Here's two more Tri-Y 4-cyl sites: http://www.teamintegra.net/sections/...p?ArticleID=50 , and http://isuzuperformance.com/isupage/tech/exhaust.html . The Isuzu site's comment about tuning for multiple torque peaks at various RPM ranges explains the the broader torque curve of the Tri-Y, and the Integra site's concept of sequentially pairing exhaust ports vs the traditional 180 deg non-sequential pairing was news to me! Maybe it's a 4 cyl and V-8 thing, since firing orders are 90 deg- you can have either 90 or 180 deg header layouts. Also interesting was the claim that Tri-Y's can compete with 4 into 1's if made with stepped dia tubes of greater length. More research required! Now, if we can get this all to fit....

[Clint Dixon]

I think the point may have been missed here.

seems to me that a system that relies on the exhaust manifold to heat the air/fuel mix is going to take a little while to do so especially on a cold day, thereby not being as effective as something that was pre-heating the intake manifold. What about some sort of heat tape? How hot do you want it to get?
Maybe another idea would be to make an aluminum or copper heatsink to suck some heat off the headers during the winter and direct it under the intake manifold.

I don't think the design was so much intended to heat the air/fuel mixture, as it was to keep the intake manifold and the base of the carburetor from icing.

I have functioning heat control valves on both my WDX and B1PW. When adjusted according to the season, they almost completely eliminate carburetor icing. The only time I have to fine tune the adjustment is on the occasional cool and damp summer morning. With the valve adjusted to "Summer" the atmospheric conditions can be just right to cause the carb to ice. When it does this, the governor controlled throttle plate will stick closed and the trucks engines can not be revved above idle. (There is no hard connection between the throttle plate and throttle linkage on an early "square top" carburetor with integral governor). A quick adjustment of the control valve to a position closer to "winter" fixes the problem and the icing condition goes away.

[maineSS]

MM- you may want to check out www.headerdesign.com - you get to use a design program as a member, although it won't accept the stroke measurement for the L6 ( I intend to ask about that, since I just signed up). It also has some good tutorials on header design- membership is free. With respect to carb heat, aircraft take the icing problem seriously- it's a quick way to buy the farm- and use heated air and often electric heat to the carb. Heat stove fittings are available on some production headers, and the idea should work faster than the usual cast-iron manifold variety, since the header is much thinner-wall material.

[monkeymissile]

cable

I don't think the design was so much intended to heat the air/fuel mixture, as it was to keep the intake manifold and the base of the carburetor from icing.

I have functioning heat control valves on both my WDX and B1PW. When adjusted according to the season, they almost completely eliminate carburetor icing. The only time I have to fine tune the adjustment is on the occasional cool and damp summer morning. With the valve adjusted to "Summer" the atmospheric conditions can be just right to cause the carb to ice. When it does this, the governor controlled throttle plate will stick closed and the trucks engines can not be revved above idle. (There is no hard connection between the throttle plate and throttle linkage on an early "square top" carburetor with integral governor). A quick adjustment of the control valve to a position closer to "winter" fixes the problem and the icing condition goes away.

Clint,
do you think having that valve controlled via cable from the cab would be handy? It would be cool to add yet another knob on the dash!

[monkeymissile]

oh my achin' head!

Here's two more Tri-Y 4-cyl sites: http://www.teamintegra.net/sections/...p?ArticleID=50 , and http://isuzuperformance.com/isupage/tech/exhaust.html . The Isuzu site's comment about tuning for multiple torque peaks at various RPM ranges explains the the broader torque curve of the Tri-Y, and the Integra site's concept of sequentially pairing exhaust ports vs the traditional 180 deg non-sequential pairing was news to me! Maybe it's a 4 cyl and V-8 thing, since firing orders are 90 deg- you can have either 90 or 180 deg header layouts. Also interesting was the claim that Tri-Y's can compete with 4 into 1's if made with stepped dia tubes of greater length. More research required! Now, if we can get this all to fit....

I could spend hours (that I don't have) reading all these. it's fascinating! Thanks

[monkeymissile]

MM- you may want to check out www.headerdesign.com - you get to use a design program as a member, although it won't accept the stroke measurement for the L6 ( I intend to ask about that, since I just signed up). It also has some good tutorials on header design- membership is free. With respect to carb heat, aircraft take the icing problem seriously- it's a quick way to buy the farm- and use heated air and often electric heat to the carb. Heat stove fittings are available on some production headers, and the idea should work faster than the usual cast-iron manifold variety, since the header is much thinner-wall material.

mSS,
that was one of the first sites I came across in my early research. I too discovered that I couldn't enter the 230's specs into their formulator. I hope they don't laugh too hard if you ask them about our wimpy engines! Let me know what they say....

[Clint Dixon]

Clint,
do you think having that valve controlled via cable from the cab would be handy? It would be cool to add yet another knob on the dash!

That certainly would be handy.