The 230 Headerfold project

[monkeymissile]

What size were you planning to use for your intermediate primary (I assume you're thinking Tri-Y)- the one that receives input from 3 cyl and merges with the collector? Your original concept was quite close to the commercially available interference type Tri-Y's- some adjustment of that should be all that's needed.

based on readily available and affordable parts these are the two design options I consider buildable.
I believe that Option A would be the better performing design, but harder to build.
The straight section of pipe represents the stock 2" pipe that I want to keep so it becomes a bit of a deciding factor for pipe diameters above it.

thoughts?

[Clint Dixon]

mSS,
I hadn't ever really considered a dual exhaust design. I just figured there wasn't enough space anyway. I have a brand new 2" exhaust pipe that was meant to go from stock manifold to stock muffler and I'd like to try to still use that. I did get a glasspacked muffler though because it was so cheap.
Therefore it looks like I'll have 1 3/8" primaries merging into a 2 1/2" collector then into the 2" stock pipe and finally through a 1 3/4" muffler. All told system length should be 81-83" long. I hope to work on the model again this weekend.

If you are considering using the stock 2" exhaust pipe from the header to the muffler, which one are you using? There were two different ones used depending upon which manifold was used: early or late. Not that it would be any problem for someone to switch pipes if their truck happened have the one you are not using.

Also, have you considered routing the tubes for clearance so that hot valve adjustment is possible once the header is installed?

[monkeymissile]

If you are considering using the stock 2" exhaust pipe from the header to the muffler, which one are you using? There were two different ones used depending upon which manifold was used: early or late. Not that it would be any problem for someone to switch pipes if their truck happened have the one you are not using.

Also, have you considered routing the tubes for clearance so that hot valve adjustment is possible once the header is installed?

Clint,
hey, that's a good question. I knew there were two different pipes, but wasn't aware that there were any dimensional differences. I though the later pipe was just one piece instead of the earlier two-piece. I have the one-piece.

You mean making sure one can get at the valve covers with headers installed? Nope, haven't yet modeled those in 3D. I can tell already that going to be an issue though. Another reason to do a quickie mockup with some flexible tubing.

Anything else I am missing? You're on a roll.......

Thanks-seriously!

Justin

[Clint Dixon]

The light bulb finally turned on!

Clint,
hey, that's a good question. I knew there were two different pipes, but wasn't aware that there were any dimensional differences. I though the later pipe was just one piece instead of the earlier two-piece. I have the one-piece.

You mean making sure one can get at the valve covers with headers installed? Nope, haven't yet modeled those in 3D. I can tell already that going to be an issue though. Another reason to do a quickie mockup with some flexible tubing.

Anything else I am missing? You're on a roll.......

Thanks-seriously!

Justin

When I was asking about the two different pipes, I was thinking about civilian Power-Wagons. I forgot that your project is for your M43. Sorry about that. I am not familiar with the pipes found on those trucks. Both of the Power-Wagon pipes are 1-piece, each dimensionally unique.

It sounds like you have it about all covered!

[MoparNorm]

I would think that with them fitting 11 trucks you'd have no problem selling them all!
Did you ever go see your headers being made?

No, it was a 2700 mile round trip, but he sent me photos every step of the way and made changes or answered questions daily, we emailed over 100 times in three months and spent a great deal of time on the phone. I also had several sets of eyes from this forum to report to me. It worked out great. Building them turned out to be the easy part...
Sales have not been as expected, in fact much worse and the one Poly powered truck that they don't fit, and was the truck with the fewest vehicles still on the road, seems to have the most guys wanting headers...Murphy's Law, I'd guess...= (

[monkeymissile]

No, it was a 2700 mile round trip, but he sent me photos every step of the way and made changes or answered questions daily, we emailed over 100 times in three months and spent a great deal of time on the phone. I also had several sets of eyes from this forum to report to me. It worked out great. Building them turned out to be the easy part...
Sales have not been as expected, in fact much worse and the one Poly powered truck that they don't fit, and was the truck with the fewest vehicles still on the road, seems to have the most guys wanting headers...Murphy's Law, I'd guess...= (

what rotten luck, oh cruel fate! How long have they been available? Maybe it's just a matter of time.......

[MoparNorm]

We started about a year ago and I think we began shipping in May or June.

[JimmieD]

Now, THAT'S A HEADER!!!

Goes with the usual Mopar Norm outlook: DO IT RIGHT OR DON'T DO IT AT ALL!

Again, beautiful, Norm....

[maineSS]

MM- I think valve adjustments with a header in place will be virtually impossible- they're difficult with the stock manifold. Option #2 would be the way to go in my opinion, as you'll get a lot more fab difficulty for not much additional gain with Option#1- especially if you keep the stock intake. The 251 had 115 hp with 7:1 CR, and 125 hp with 8:1 CR compared to the 120 hp @7.9:1 CR of the last 230's. Even with 21 more CID, the flathead was running up against fundamental breathing limitations. Reduce restriction and make it fit easily- that will make life better for most PW users.

[monkeymissile]

retainers

MM- I think valve adjustments with a header in place will be virtually impossible- they're difficult with the stock manifold. Option #2 would be the way to go in my opinion, as you'll get a lot more fab difficulty for not much additional gain with Option#1- especially if you keep the stock intake. The 251 had 115 hp with 7:1 CR, and 125 hp with 8:1 CR compared to the 120 hp @7.9:1 CR of the last 230's. Even with 21 more CID, the flathead was running up against fundamental breathing limitations. Reduce restriction and make it fit easily- that will make life better for most PW users.

mSS,
I am leaning towards option B as well, mostly due to the simplified fabrication. If I was clever I would maybe add retaining tabs and slip-fit connections right below the intake manifold so that the bulk of the header could be removed for easier servicing.

[maineSS]

It would be really neat if you could come up with a way to disassemble the header that didn't leak and didn't require messing with the gasket. Have any idea what you're going to use for the gasket?

[monkeymissile]

It would be really neat if you could come up with a way to disassemble the header that didn't leak and didn't require messing with the gasket. Have any idea what you're going to use for the gasket?

disassembly would be sweet, just another level of complexity that may or may not be feasible when I get right down to it. It seems like competition headers often have all the various sections connected with tabs and screws so that they can be easily swapped out based on race conditions. I figured if that system works for them it ought to work for us right? Snug fitting swaged connections with plenty of overlap and liberal copper anti-seize might do it don't you think?
I haven't thought about anything other than standard gasket material so far. Got any suggestions?

[XwelderX]

Hi there. Here is a set of dual headers going on my 230. They were made just by splitting the original manifold and welding them up.

what ya think??

[monkeymissile]

Hi there. Here is a set of dual headers going on my 230. They were made just by splitting the original manifold and welding them up.

what ya think??

Well, what I think is that you have a split manifold and not really a "header" since the primaries are even shorter than on a shorty-style header. I saw somewhere on the web an outfit in, I think, Kansas that can do this modification. Is that where you had this done or did you do it? The place I saw did a sweet job; as many know welding cast iron is tricky.
Anyway, I am by no means an expert in exhaust/header design. Splitting the header should offer some increased performance. What are your plans now, dual exhaust or some sort of 2:1 collector? Standard muffler or aftermarket?
I am hoping to build much longer primary pipes to get better scavenging.

Justin

[maineSS]

The reason I asked about the gasket is that headers seem to be trickier to seal than manifolds, and often come with special gaskets. I haven't looked for any 230 header gaskets, so I don't know whether anyone makes them. It would be interesting to see what SickCall's experience has been.