The 230 Headerfold project

[monkeymissile]

The reason I asked about the gasket is that headers seem to be trickier to seal than manifolds, and often come with special gaskets. I haven't looked for any 230 header gaskets, so I don't know whether anyone makes them. It would be interesting to see what SickCall's experience has been.

mSS,
what makes headers harder to seal? Maybe I use that metal-backed gasket material, the stuff that compresses? Not sure what else to use honestly.

Justin

[XwelderX]

Well, what I think is that you have a split manifold and not really a "header" since the primaries are even shorter than on a shorty-style header. I saw somewhere on the web an outfit in, I think, Kansas that can do this modification. Is that where you had this done or did you do it? The place I saw did a sweet job; as many know welding cast iron is tricky.
Anyway, I am by no means an expert in exhaust/header design. Splitting the header should offer some increased performance. What are your plans now, dual exhaust or some sort of 2:1 collector? Standard muffler or aftermarket?
I am hoping to build much longer primary pipes to get better scavenging.

Justin

I didnt have them done by that company. The guy I got them from made them when he was a teenager back in the 50s. They were in his 1940 dodge hotrod. Im gunna use them on my Plymouth and run dual Smithys. Im making a another set for another flathead six Im building and will put in Power Wagon when I get one.

Ande yes welding cast iron is a pain, but if done right can be a beautiful thing.

[monkeymissile]

vintage

I didnt have them done by that company. The guy I got them from made them when he was a teenager back in the 50s. They were in his 1940 dodge hotrod. Im gunna use them on my Plymouth and run dual Smithys. Im making a another set for another flathead six Im building and will put in Power Wagon when I get one.

Ande yes welding cast iron is a pain, but if done right can be a beautiful thing.

Coolio, vintage modifications! Are you making this other set from another manifold as well? Look forward to seeing pics.

Justin

[monkeymissile]

Kansas Kustoms

for those who are interested.......

http://www.inliners.org/Advertisers/kkk_ad1.html

[JimmieD]

As I recall, dead-soft copper is the best gasket material, reuseable too.

[monkeymissile]

thicknum

As I recall, dead-soft copper is the best gasket material, reuseable too.

Jimmie,
seems like 16ga would work nicely?

[JimmieD]

I've not used it in years. Can't remember thickess, but depends on application too. Some go as thick as 1/16" or better, depends. PAW and Slummit sell it, as do most large performance vendors. Referred to as 'dead soft copper', meaning it's not annealed or work hardened.

[Sickcall]

Monkie,

Thread keeps progressing with some good information. I have been traveling overseas and am not able to post frequently. I used a 2 inch Magnaflow, its a straight thru design like a glass pack but does not burn out. It is also stainless and the one used is almost the same size as the original m37 muffler.

Since I built a combined intake/exhaust I welded it all to the same flange plate. I like how easy everything bolts on at the same time! The thickness used for the plate was 1/2 inch as I did not want to have gasket problems. I surfaced the gasket side of the plate to make it flat and used stock intake exhaust gasket from Felpro. It has been on the road for 4 years and hasn't leaked yet.

[monkeymissile]

progress

cool, thanks for the info.

some minor progress in recent weeks:
- finalized on 1 3/8" primaries and have just located a good source for thick-walled stainless pipe
- scored some free 1 3/8" backer rod to help mockup primary configurations
- I am pretty confident that I'll be going with a 6:2:1 setup for simplicity of construction
- I may try to develop a removeable design for better access to valves, pumps, etc
- Now I want to see if a simple heat riser can also be incorporated

[Irish]

Here is something for you to see. After looking around, it seems it is just a factory passenger car exhaust manifold.
Look closely. Dual dumps. Not quite as clean a tubular headers but kinda cool.
And I applaud your header design. Good work!
And I'm sure you seen this fellow's site. Some nice mods on his car. Nice headers from Langdon's.
http://www.50plymouth.com/04-eng/eng.html

[monkeymissile]

funky!

Irish,
is this manifold on your truck? If so, where did it come from? I would think that this design would work much better than the stock one since exhaust gases from 1-2-3 would have a place to go when using the heat riser valve.
Thanks for sending this, it just gave me another idea......
And yes, I have seen this guy's site. Looks like he went through a couple of options himself!
Have a great holiday!

Justin

[Irish]

Yep it's on there but I have no clue where it came from. The engine was rebuilt and I'm guessing was installed at that time.
I was talking to an old time hot rodder and he said splitting the manifold was common practice. No big deal he said. Give it a try.

[maineSS]

MM;
Looks like things are progressing nicely. I saw a photo of a set of "take-apart" headers- wonder if coatings would be a problem in the socket area? It would be interesing to see if you better these numbers:
"When I worked at the Dyno Shop in Santee in '83, I built an intake/headers for my 230. We had an exhaust tubing bender. I had to order out 1 1/2" tubing. Burnt a single flange out of 3/8" plate, mig welded the tubing. With the left tail pipe up and over the drive shaft, three cylinders out each side, Auger Power mufflers, it sounded like a hot Porsche. High-rise intake to make longer runners for better low end, and a small 2-bbl from a 318. I brazed some copper tube to the bottom of the intake runners for fuel-vaporization. It improved power to the ground from 45 hp to 65! Not many trucks I modifyed then for on road use made a 44% improvement!

I suppose you could buy some U-bends, and fabricate the flanges for the face, and make a 3-into-1 header-like collector to a carb base. If you can weld aluminum, maybe one the the injected intakes from a Ford with the long u-bends would give enough material to make a rust proof one? Mine looked like scrap tin after a few months."
This came from Chris Case iin the "Intake Manifolds For the Flathead" thread (http://www.powerwagonadvertiser.com/...ead.php?t=4848). My math shows ~29% improvement (45/65), but it shows that restriction reduction appears to have a big payoff.

[OLD DODGE]

New Math?

The original math was correct at 44%.

[monkeymissile]

coats

MM;
Looks like things are progressing nicely. I saw a photo of a set of "take-apart" headers- wonder if coatings would be a problem in the socket area? It would be interesing to see if you better these numbers:
"When I worked at the Dyno Shop in Santee in '83, I built an intake/headers for my 230. We had an exhaust tubing bender. I had to order out 1 1/2" tubing. Burnt a single flange out of 3/8" plate, mig welded the tubing. With the left tail pipe up and over the drive shaft, three cylinders out each side, Auger Power mufflers, it sounded like a hot Porsche. High-rise intake to make longer runners for better low end, and a small 2-bbl from a 318. I brazed some copper tube to the bottom of the intake runners for fuel-vaporization. It improved power to the ground from 45 hp to 65! Not many trucks I modifyed then for on road use made a 44% improvement!

I suppose you could buy some U-bends, and fabricate the flanges for the face, and make a 3-into-1 header-like collector to a carb base. If you can weld aluminum, maybe one the the injected intakes from a Ford with the long u-bends would give enough material to make a rust proof one? Mine looked like scrap tin after a few months."
This came from Chris Case iin the "Intake Manifolds For the Flathead" thread (http://www.powerwagonadvertiser.com/...ead.php?t=4848). My math shows ~29% improvement (45/65), but it shows that restriction reduction appears to have a big payoff.

mSS,
Somehow I missed this thread. I'd be psyched to get that level of improvement, but think I'd have to beef up the intake/carb system as well and I'm not prepared to go there right now since it ain't broke! If I was so inclined, I'd probably just get a dual carb intake manifold rather than make one.
Unfortunately I don't think I'll be able to spring for any sort of coating, at least for this prototype. I understand how at high temps the metal can oxidize rapidly, but I plan to use stainless pipe with an .140" wall so I think I'll be ok for a while. I hope my headers won't get up to 1200F, that's super toasty!
BTW, I just bought a copy of this book and it has a great section on header design and fabrication.

http://www.amazon.com/Metal-Fabricat...8700652&sr=1-1