The 230 Headerfold project

[monkeymissile]

1/2 battle

The set i did were on a 1/2t, 1941. I was never concerned about the hood height. Thanks for mentioning it, may be a limitation on my '53 FFPW. M37/43s would really limit rise.

I had assumed you would change carbs and air cleaner system. Changing manifolds is only half the battle, with that undersized carb and restrictive filter and ducting. Hmmm, maybe a set of three side draft Mikunis off of a Japanese motorcycle would fill the bill? 32mm would be about 1 1/4" . Or would that look too high tech on that old iron? On the '41 I ran a 2bbl from a '70's 318 van- Stromberg? The GM Monojet one bbl is good, the Duo-jet two bbl Okay also. The small Holley/Weber progressive two bbl (5200?) might get the best milage. Like on Pintos. Holleys have always done a good job of atomizing fuel.

Heating the cooler air after evaporation of gas would be more efficient- more heat to transfer faster with the bigger temperature differential of the hot water vs the colder air after the evaporation of the gas.

Chris,
I realize that I really should also rework the intake side of the system to take full advantage of upgrades. That's going to have to happen later if at all. Do you foresee any major problems if I only upgrade the exhaust and leave the stock carb setup? Again, not really looking to hotrod this 54 year old beast, just make it more reliable.....Thanks!

Justin

[MoparNorm]

A motor is nothing more than an air pump, albeit explosive air.
Getting the burned air out more efficiently will be helpful and very noticeable.
Getting the air in, compressed and out, is of course much more efficient, but exhaust is better than nothing.....

[maineSS]

Chris- Waste your money on PW's- impossible! Look on the bright side- YOU got to waste the money, not some bureaucrat.
My reason for favoring long rods is twofold; (1) the regressive burn characteristic of liquid fuels, (2) better use of the cylinder volume during critical parts of the intake/exhaust periods. The ability of fuel to develop gas pressure depends on the amount of surface area exposed to combustion. As gasoline droplets burn, they costantly decrease in surface area, reducing gas production. Meanwhile, cylinder volume is increasing, causing pressure to drop exponentially. Long rods increase TDC dwell, keeping cylinder volume small and allowing higher average pressure on the piston. Long stroke can't contribute much, because piston speed outruns gas expansion speed fairly quickly- like pushing a car downhill. At first you can push, but very soon you're just hanging on trying to keep up. Long rods also increase BDC dwell, allowing more exhaust blowdown, and the increase in TDC time on the intake stroke aloows more cylinder filling- IF you take advantage of it with high velocity intake flow. I bought a set of 38mm Mikuni's from a Polaris triple snowmobile ("Triple Carbs" thread), but haven't got around to fitting them. The only problem I can see is that carb air velocity may be too low at idle compared with a 2-stroke, which would require a different needle profile, otherwise it should all be good.

MM- I've also been removing snow from my car tent- it's easier to bounce the roof from the inside with your shovel- snow slides right off. I got hours of healthful exercise clearing my driveway, doorway, and car shelter- from 12-2 AM. Now if I could find some useful idiot to benefit from this exercise while I supervise from indoors.... A hotspot under the casrb vaporizes fuel more effectively than heated intake air. For emission control, engineers found it easier to calibrate carbs by heating all the intake air a uniform temp, rather than trying to chase constantly changing outside temps.

W.A.- The tractor was described as the "Ram-Tough Custom"- I Googled this and "Dodge Farm Tractor", but didn't find much. The Graham Brothers made a farm tractor with Dodge truck parts and a Continental flathead prior to WWII that was sold thru Sears- don't know if it continued afterwards. It's odd that Dodge would make a tractor from truck parts when they were trying to market the PW for the same purpose. If I find more, I'll post it.

[Marius]

Here's the link to the tractor pulling:

http://forum.olskoolrodz.com/showthread.php?t=14538

[monkeymissile]

MM- I've also been removing snow from my car tent- it's easier to bounce the roof from the inside with your shovel- snow slides right off. I got hours of healthful exercise clearing my driveway, doorway, and car shelter- from 12-2 AM. Now if I could find some useful idiot to benefit from this exercise while I supervise from indoors.... A hotspot under the casrb vaporizes fuel more effectively than heated intake air. For emission control, engineers found it easier to calibrate carbs by heating all the intake air a uniform temp, rather than trying to chase constantly changing outside temps.

I used a wide shop broom from the inside, I think I had to go out at least 6 times. What a pain, too bad both barbs are full and not strong enough to hold the truck.
Now I'm shifting gears to designing a heated carb riser, but since I have both manifolds off, not sure how high I could make the riser and still have everything fit under the hood.

[chriscase]

Here's the link to the tractor pulling:

http://forum.olskoolrodz.com/showthread.php?t=14538

I guess the "transfer port" he mentions is in the combustion chamber, the area between the bore and the valve/combustion area where the valves and spark plug are located. I you have a spare head handy, you can imagine the restrictive size of that zone. But I'm not sure if I would agree with him re: not bothering to make a better intake manifold because the 'transfer port' is a major restriction. The friction caused by restrictions is cumulative. Lessing the number of choke points has to benefit overall flow- the air charge will be moving faster when it hits that ultimate restriction, ramming more air through the restriciton. I wonder if chamfering the lip of the cylinder at that point would help internal flow, or just make some kind of hot spot on the piston? Maybe you would also need to chamfer the piston there, to prevent the lip of the piston from melting from the hot air charge coming from the combustion zone? Durn primitive flat heads... Perhaps there is a book from the 50's on hot-rodding ?

It's been a while since I've had a spare crank to look at, but I do recall that there was something unusual about the stock oil system. Without even attempting to hit 5,000rpm, Our problem rod seems to be #6. I would suspect that #5 sucks the oil out of #6 when, at higher revs, the crank acts like a centrifugal pump? Anyway, his crank mods don't seem complex or risky, probably worth while at overhaul. Or at least use two upper inserts in each main, to get maximum oil headed towards the rods?

[Clint Dixon]

"Dodge" tractor

...W.A.- The tractor was described as the "Ram-Tough Custom"- I Googled this and "Dodge Farm Tractor", but didn't find much. The Graham Brothers made a farm tractor with Dodge truck parts and a Continental flathead prior to WWII that was sold thru Sears- don't know if it continued afterwards. It's odd that Dodge would make a tractor from truck parts when they were trying to market the PW for the same purpose. If I find more, I'll post it.

I'll lay odds that the tractor in question was produced by the Custom Manufacturing Company. The company moved several times, but produced tractors during approximately the 1947-1951 time frame. They were sold under their own name of "Custom Model B" as well as a host of others, including: Lehr's Big Boy, Wards (Montgomery Wards), and Rockol. They were one of those tractors that the company would produce and put about anyone's name on it who wanted to market and sell it.

They used a Chrysler Industrial 6-cylinder L-head engine. Displacement information does not always agree and varies upon what book or website you find it in. They also used a Dodge truck 5-speed transmission, sometimes with Gyrol Fluid Drive, and a large Dodge truck rear axle. They also used hydraulic steering brakes on the rear axle.

The tractors have long been popular candidates as competition pulling tractors, and why not, they used all of the right parts! It is common to see one or more of these tractors show up at the larger Midwestern antique tractor shows.

I will see if I can find links and photos.

[Clint Dixon]

Quick photo of a "Dodge" tractor

I'll lay odds that the tractor in question was produced by the Custom Manufacturing Company. The company moved several times, but produced tractors during approximately the 1947-1951 time frame. They were sold under their own name of "Custom Model B" as well as a host of others, including: Lehr's Big Boy, Wards (Montgomery Wards), and Rockol. They were one of those tractors that the company would produce and put about anyone's name on it who wanted to market and sell it.

They used a Chrysler Industrial 6-cylinder L-head engine. Displacement information does not always agree and varies upon what book or website you find it in. They also used a Dodge truck 5-speed transmission, sometimes with Gyrol Fluid Drive, and a large Dodge truck rear axle. They also used hydraulic steering brakes on the rear axle.

The tractors have long been popular candidates as competition pulling tractors, and why not, they used all of the right parts! It is common to see one or more of these tractors show up at the larger Midwestern antique tractor shows.

I will see if I can find links and photos.

Not a real good photo. Regardless of what name the Custom Company put on them, they all looked the same.

Discussions on tractor forums relate how these Customs could travel at a road speed of 50mph and up. Mike Fleig of Fairfield Iowa (Vintage Power Wagon mechanic fame) told me about one they used on the farm for PTO work. He reached down and opened the governor to get out of the way of a semi truck on the state highway and attained some ridiculous speeds with it.

[maineSS]

Mario- Good find- that's the one I found on the Inliner BB. However, on that forum they decided AGAINST plugging the rod oiling holes! It sounds like they got their bearing groove idea from the rebuild chapter in one of the Dodge truck books I have (Don't have the title handy), which advocated cutting the groove as wide as the oil feed hole and 3 times deeper than stock. I'd leave the bearing alone and refrain frum plugging the rod squirt holes.

Clint- Looks like you found the right tractor. In reading page 2 of Mario's post, I saw that "Hudsonater" had it up to 70 mph on asphalt- scary for a farm tractor. Did it have a 2 speed rearend or overdrive?

MM- You may want to look into "thermal transfer cement" as an aid to making a hotspot. It's used industrially in pipe & tank heating- carries heat from a steam line to whatever needs heating. Lot's cheaper than double jacketing, and works just as well. It comes in hardening & non-hardening varieties, and can be gotten in caulking gun cartridges. Just run a waterline next to the bootom of the intake, fillet the cement on either side- you're done. Some info at: http://www.insulation.org/articles/a...fm?id=IO021203

Chris- You're right about a better intake and keeping velocity high- the flathead needs all the breathing it can get. The key seems to be to reduce backspace around the intake valve, as was done in the '58 and up head. The Briggs & Stratton racers would slot the headbolt holes and shift the head sideways to reduce the valve backspace area. and the Ford people often cut a slot in the intake side of the block, but that kills compression, with no way to get it back. Another thing to look into would be reducing piston weight & ring friction by replacing that 4-ring monster with a lighter modern one with thinner, better rings. Supposedly the Slant-Six will fit certain Dodge FH's, maybe others will, too.

[chriscase]

Anybody know what head casting numbers would be the '58 and up?

The combustion chamber has a pretty low angle to it's roof, slotting the head bolt holes would add marginal improvement to the port size.

Looks like the best head # is 1676337, form this site: <http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache...misc/a1/3.xls+
%27casting+number%27+1311804&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl =us&client=firefox-a>

[Marius]

Or at least use two upper inserts in each main, to get maximum oil headed towards the rods?

All my NOS main bearing inserts are grooved in both halves. Any idea who supplies ungrooved inserts?

[chriscase]

I haven't had a 230 crank in my hands in 30 years. +/-. But most of the main inserts for all of the more common engines have un-grooved bottom halves. The lack of the groove gives more surface area to support the crank. I was thinking that using fully grooved inserts might be an alternative to drilling through the crank.

I wonder if grooving the bottom of #1 and #6 rod inserts would help get oil to #2 & 5?

Has anybody here got a loose crank to check for the oil hole in #2 & 5? Seems to me that about last year somebody said that no, it ain't so, each rod is fed directly from a main...

[W_A_Watson_II]

The tractor was sold by Montgomery Ward in the 50's, as soon as I can I will post what my Dad found in one of his tractor books.

[maineSS]

Anyone know what the dia of the 170 Slant Six piston is? The 225 piston will fit the 251, but is too big for the 230. The big challenge to better flow thru the flathead are the two 90 deg bends the flow has to make in the valve area, with the valve exit bend being more critical. Anything that reduces turbulence in this area will help. Flow testing is necessary to develop this info, and flow testing a flathead would be a real science project, as you have to test both the head and the block. You'd have to take the rotating assy out, mount the engine on a stand, and use a flexible tube & adapter to plug into the bottom of the cylinders. About the only way to get more air in will be increasing intake flow velocity, since you can't use bigger valves. Sidedraft triple carbs would probably give the best result. This would take advantage of the greater BDC dwell of the long rods.

[Marius]

Anyone know what the dia of the 170 Slant Six piston is?

They are the same as the 225!!

http://www.kb-silvolite.com/spistons...etails&S_id=38