Hand tools

[Clint Dixon]

I have mostly Chraftsman. I have never had any trouble with a store refusing to replace a broken tool, but I have not had to return much. Just the occasional socket and screwdriver.

My Chraftsman ratchets were made in the 1970's. I don't think they carry this style anymore. They have a large knob on the back of the head with flats that is easy to grab to turn and set the ratchet direction. They also have a button to push in the middle of the knob to release a socket and a knurled knob on the underside to quickly spin a socket. These are very find thread ratchets. I use them like breaker bars, yet have never ruined one.

I also like Wright tools. I have a 3/4 inch Wright socket set in sizes from about 7/8-inch up to 2-1/2". I routinely use a cheater bar on the ratchet handles in this set and have never broken a single tool.

I have had good luck with Channel Loc brand of pliers, dikes, water pump pliers, etc. from the local farm store.

[Gordon Maney]

I have mostly Chraftsman. I have never had any trouble with a store refusing to replace a broken tool, but I have not had to return much. Just the occasional socket and screwdriver.

My Chraftsman ratchets were made in the 1970's. I don't think they carry this style anymore. They have a large knob on the back of the head with flats that is easy to grab to turn and set the ratchet direction. They also have a button to push in the middle of the knob to release a socket and a knurled knob on the underside to quickly spin a socket. These are very find thread ratchets. I use them like breaker bars, yet have never ruined one.

I also like Wright tools. I have a 3/4 inch Wright socket set in sizes from about 7/8-inch up to 2-1/2". I routinely use a cheater bar on the ratchet handles in this set and have never broken a single tool.

I have had good luck with Channel Loc brand of pliers, dikes, water pump pliers, etc. from the local farm store.

Interesting. I had not hear of Wright, but am pleased they are made in the USA.

See this: http://home.comcast.net/~alloy-artifacts/index.html

Some pretty fun stuff there.

[The Other Ross]

For me it's SK and that's mostly because of the local dealer.Gear wrench brand tools will suprize you.NAPA did a closeout on certain sets and I got an 11 piece combination set that handles as nicly as Snap on.For me how a tool handles and feels is a function of quality.Tools are repetive motion appliances,bulky and uncomfortable are magnified.This is the reason I don't care for many Craftsman products.I also hound closeouts and inventory reductions for Bonney and Proto.

[Clint Dixon]

Gordon, your link answered a bunch of questions

Interesting. I had not hear of Wright, but am pleased they are made in the USA.

See this: http://home.comcast.net/~alloy-artifacts/index.html

Some pretty fun stuff there.

From this page:

http://home.comcast.net/~alloy-artif...y.html#history

Specific text:

Size Conventions for Pressed-Steel Sockets
Before proceeding to show examples of the socket sets, we'll first take a look at the somewhat odd size conventions used for pressed-steel sockets. This is an area that will probably cause as much confusion for modern readers as it likely did for early auto owners or "automobilists", as they were sometimes called.

Readers familiar with early Model T socket sets may have wondered about the numerous "oddball" socket sizes in 32nds, sizes such as 17/32 or 23/32 that are seldom seen today. Based on the socket sizes, you might have concluded that the early automobiles used a lot of strange fastener sizes.

However, if you check the open-end wrenches from the same time era, these tools don't include all of the opening sizes seen on sockets. (Keeping in mind that wrench openings were marked by a U.S.S. or S.A.E. size.) So if a Model T really used 17/32 or 23/32 nuts, why weren't these sizes available in open-end wrenches?

This discrepancy turns out to be due to pressed-steel socket sizes being specified as 1/32 oversize, apparently an allowance for the manufacturing tolerance. This means that a 17/32 pressed-steel socket would be specified for an (across-flats) 1/2 inch nut, for which a modern 1/2 socket would work fine. This same nut would use an open-end wrench marked as "1/4 U.S.S." or "5/16 S.A.E." under the old size conventions.

So in reality the Model T didn't have any 17/32 or 23/32 nuts. The early automobiles used a mix of fasteners with sizes following the U.S.S., S.A.E., or Hex Capscrew conventions, which use a few of the 32nd sizes, but the "strange" sizes appear only when the 1/32 oversize socket allowance is added. Open-end wrenches (and modern sockets) don't need to use an explicit oversize allowance, as the manufacturing tolerances allow for a small oversize to be hidden in the nominal size.



I have a set of pressed-steel sockets made by the Frank Mossberg Co. This is a complete set of 15/32 thru 1-9/32 (all in 32's sizes). It has a ratchet handle with a female square through drive that will accept the hollow square male end of the sockets, from either side, to allow ratcheting left or right. It also has two spark plug sockets, an extension, and a u-joint with 1/2 inch solid male ends that fit inside the hollow socket body. You have to insert a spare socket into the ratchet to adapt down to the u-joint. My Grandpa bought this set when he worked in a Chevrolet garage in 1928 and 1929. I would image he bought the set used. The site dates this set from 1913 to 1923. The attached image from the site shows a socket set exactly like mine, only mine is complete.

I always wondered about the 32's sizes. Thanks for the link Gordon!

[Deathdeelr]

After 30 years in the business I'd have to say I have mostly Craftsman tools in my cabinet only because of the availability. The exception being as many have said before of certain specialty stuff. Please keep in mind this post is my opinion. I don't want to offend anyone. Then again...

1. Craftsman makes horrible tool boxes. Most are sliding drawers that are not tall enough for organizers whether they're for wrenches or sockets. On the other hand SnapOn and MAC make wonderful boxes and I recommend anyone to own at least one of these in your life however they're unbelievably expensive. I had to turn my box back over to the SnapOn dealer for resale to pay off the nut as business wasn't very good for me that year and the weekly payments came within $20 of my monthly car payment. I've had a Masterhand 52" box from Tractor Supply for over five years now and love it. Not as solid as the SnapOn but roller bearing drawers of many sizes and depths, multiple configurations for the drawers and massive roller bearing casters with brakes; under $1G for the top and bottom unit and it comes with neoprene liners, two handles on the top box for lifting, two handles for the roller cabinet and optional like keys with a green and red indicator on the locks to let you know if it's locked.

2. Line wrenches and crows feet have to be SnapOn. I've rounded more nuts and cursed more jobs due to Craftsman line wrenches that flex. I can hang on a 15mm SnapOn line wrench without the fork flexing.

3. Impact sockets are Pittsburgh (Harbor Freight). I've broken Craftsman sockets and have no trouble warrantying them but have yet to break a Pittsburgh impact socket. Well worth the price for a home hobbyist.

4. Any forged steel ball joint/bushing press is preferable to the cast units from Harbor Freight and OTC. My unit is SnapOn and you don't want to know how much it cost however it's worth the money to be able to put an impact gun to the press to get that horribly stuck lower ball joint out of the control arm and not to have to be concerned with the C-press breaking and damaging essential parts of your body.

5. Ingersoll air tools are the best. My 600ftlb SnapOn gun has been back to the dealer for service three times in 10 years with broken parts. My MAC gun which is actually a IR235 with a MAC logo on the side has NEVER in 15 years needed any other service than being taken apart and cleaned once in a while and a shot of grease once or twice a year. Same with the ratchet and other IR stuff. We use CH guns at the airport which are good units but in a constant use atmosphere require more maintenance than I would like.

6. AMPRO. This is a name I never heard of before I saw it in Advance Auto. I needed a replacement 3/8" ratchet for one I lost out of my Craftsman set I keep in the car and was in AA at the time it caught my eye. I now have quite a few AMPRO ratchets and extensions. They sell a locking extension set that's very neat; locks the sockets to the extension so you don't lose that one 10mm in the dark, under the truck when you most need it and it's 1/4 of the price of SO and 1/2 the price of the Craftsman (which you have to order anyway since my local Sears Hardware says is an online only purchase). Much beefier than Craftsman or SnapOn with nice rubber handles, very positive click to the ratchet, and lifetime warranty through Advance Auto. I had a 2 foot bar on the 24" 1/2" drive breaker bar not to long ago with good results.

Not to flame any brand name but this is my experience.

[MasterYota]

Tools are rather subjective to the user. If you put good tools in the hands of fool - you'll get poor results. You could put sub-par tools in the hands of a focused and talented technician, and get get an exceptional job.

Deathdeelr - You are spot on with your observations on craftsman tool boxes. And with the line wrenches as well. Best tool for stubborn lines: A plumbers torch and a good pair of channel locks or vice grips. Chances are the line is seized in the fitting anyway. I've gotten in the habit of using a little anti-sieze on the line and the fitting threads. Everything since usually comes apart nicely.

[712edf]

I'm starting to use magnetic bars on the lids of toolboxes & shop walls to store stuff like airless spray tips. I waste more time digging through tool box drawers than anything. Its the little crap that's the most aggravating. If I designed a truck toolbox that had room to properly store everything that I feel compelled to wag around, it would take a school bus to carry it.

Do they still make Proto & Thorsen wrenches?

Bucky

[MasterYota]

Do they still make Proto & Thorsen wrenches?

They make Proto for sure, as I just bought some for Dad for Christmas. They are not cheap though - but appear virtually unchanged from the set that Dad bought 40 years ago. And they still carry the lifetime warranty.

[Deathdeelr]

Tools are rather subjective to the user. If you put good tools in the hands of fool - you'll get poor results. You could put sub-par tools in the hands of a focused and talented technician, and get get an exceptional job.

Quick story on this. We hired a guy a few years back who talked the talk, walked the walk, loads of recommendations. My boss at the time made only one mistake. He never checked the guys credentials. The guy moved into the shop with a top of the line SO box complete with keyless entry, his own diagnostics (scanner, DVOM, probes, etc.), box was so big it came on a flatbed tow truck. First night we started him off easy. F250 stone dead. Guy changed the battery, engine belt. Still wouldn't start. Lead mechanic told him to clean the grounds on the starter, alt, replace the engine ground strap. About five minutes later the lead comes into my office to ask me (sarcastically) why Ray was spraying electrocleen on the floor.

He lasted three more days before he jacked a Fuso up to change a tire and put the jack through the oil pan.

[MasterYota]

Quick story on this. We hired a guy a few years back who talked the talk, walked the walk, loads of recommendations. My boss at the time made only one mistake. He never checked the guys credentials. The guy moved into the shop with a top of the line SO box complete with keyless entry, his own diagnostics (scanner, DVOM, probes, etc.), box was so big it came on a flatbed tow truck. First night we started him off easy. F250 stone dead. Guy changed the battery, engine belt. Still wouldn't start. Lead mechanic told him to clean the grounds on the starter, alt, replace the engine ground strap. About five minutes later the lead comes into my office to ask me (sarcastically) why Ray was spraying electrocleen on the floor.

He lasted three more days before he jacked a Fuso up to change a tire and put the jack through the oil pan.

Yep, they are everywhere. It would be easier if they weren't so hard to spot...

[The Other Ross]

Quick note on tool chests.Just about all chests no matter what name is on them is made by Waterloo.I have a friend who owns a tool distribution company and he buys most of Waterloo's scatch and dents.You basically get as good as you spend when it comes to top and bottoms.

[Charles Talbert]

Been watching this thread off and on for a while. I'm somewhat surprised to see that nobody has mentioned the old NAPA "NEW BRITAIN" line. These were super heavy duty tools that used to be the top of the line in all NAPA stores. We don't have complete sets, but I'm proud of the ones we do have, I'd rate them the best. I have a set of Craftsman professional raised panel combination wrenches that I'd rate above Snap-On or Mac, no longer offered by Craftsman. We have neither Snap-On or Mac representation in our area any more. MATCO is the only mobile distributor in our area, ok lines, maybe slightly better than today's Craftsman. Wright, Gray, and Martin are some of the best tools available these days I think, rated as industrial grade, but again, no local representation, however they can be ordered in.

I can't take this to the bank as I have not checked into the matter. I was told recently by a tool distributor that I feel I can trust, Mac is now manufactured in the same facility as Craftsman along with a few other brands. If this is accurate, it is certainly a low blow for the Mac name and quality we once associated with that name.

I've decided that the best place to go tool shopping these days is the larger flea markets. I have a friend who regularly hits the large flea market at Asheville, NC. He comes by with unbelievable deals on Snap-On tools. Older stuff in great condition at unbelievable prices. He likes Snap-On and searches especially for that brand, his trips pay off big. He keeps what he wants and sells other stuff with a modest mark up, does well for himself while passing on good deals on good tools to others in need. If you live in an area where larger flea markets are accessible to you, I'd highly recommend you check them out for tools. You may run into a real gold mine.

[Gordon Maney]

Been watching this thread off and on for a while. I'm somewhat surprised to see that nobody has mentioned the old NAPA "NEW BRITAIN" line. These were super heavy duty tools that used to be the top of the line in all NAPA stores. We don't have complete sets, but I'm proud of the ones we do have, I'd rate them the best. I have a set of Craftsman professional raised panel combination wrenches that I'd rate above Snap-On or Mac, no longer offered by Craftsman. We have neither Snap-On or Mac representation in our area any more. MATCO is the only mobile distributor in our area, ok lines, maybe slightly better than today's Craftsman. Wright, Gray, and Martin are some of the best tools available these days I think, rated as industrial grade, but again, no local representation, however they can be ordered in.

I can't take this to the bank as I have not checked into the matter. I was told recently by a tool distributor that I feel I can trust, Mac is now manufactured in the same facility as Craftsman along with a few other brands. If this is accurate, it is certainly a low blow for the Mac name and quality we once associated with that name.

I've decided that the best place to go tool shopping these days is the larger flea markets. I have a friend who regularly hits the large flea market at Asheville, NC. He comes by with unbelievable deals on Snap-On tools. Older stuff in great condition at unbelievable prices. He likes Snap-On and searches especially for that brand, his trips pay off big. He keeps what he wants and sells other stuff with a modest mark up, does well for himself while passing on good deals on good tools to others in need. If you live in an area where larger flea markets are accessible to you, I'd highly recommend you check them out for tools. You may run into a real gold mine.

That sounds like a great idea.

[Deathdeelr]

I've never paid too much attention to NAPA stuff. I've seen too many injuries involving NAPA's sockets and wrenches. New Britain tools were sold by NAPA but have nothing to do with they're tool lines today. They were the manufacturers for many other companies tool lines including Craftsman. I believe they're out of business.

Snap On Blue Point stuff is made in the same place as Craftsman. After a few years of owning a Blue Point snap ring plier set one of the red rubber handles had deteriorated and slid off the metal plier to reveal a stamped Craftsman logo. After consulting with my dealer he replaced the plier from a set he had on the truck and was horrified when while still standing on the truck I slit the rubber handle and sure enough, Craftsman was stamped into the brand new plier handle. I still don't have an answer on that one.

Flea markets are great for older tools and even new ones. I picked up an IR 3/4" impact gun for $100 and sold it on ebay for $300. I've picked up plenty of Snap On and Craftsman hand tools for super cheap (e.g. mixed and matched sockets to make a complete set of 3/4" Mac sockets from 1" to 3" for $100). The only thing you need to watch out for is warranty replacement. It's been my experience that my Snap On dealer refused to repair a couple of ratchets that I purchased at a flea market due to the fact that I didn't purchase them from him. Needless to say I had to speak to his regional manager and got the ratchets repaired free of charge. Craftsman has no such problems. Walk in to any Sears and so long as it doesn't show signs of being abused (hammer marks, vise galling, welding) they replace pretty much anything. They've even let me upgrade wrenches and sockets so long as I pay the difference.

[Charles Talbert]

I've never paid too much attention to NAPA stuff. I've seen too many injuries involving NAPA's sockets and wrenches. New Britain tools were sold by NAPA but have nothing to do with they're tool lines today. They were the manufacturers for many other companies tool lines including Craftsman. I believe they're out of business.

Snap On Blue Point stuff is made in the same place as Craftsman. After a few years of owning a Blue Point snap ring plier set one of the red rubber handles had deteriorated and slid off the metal plier to reveal a stamped Craftsman logo. After consulting with my dealer he replaced the plier from a set he had on the truck and was horrified when while still standing on the truck I slit the rubber handle and sure enough, Craftsman was stamped into the brand new plier handle. I still don't have an answer on that one.

Flea markets are great for older tools and even new ones. I picked up an IR 3/4" impact gun for $100 and sold it on ebay for $300. I've picked up plenty of Snap On and Craftsman hand tools for super cheap (e.g. mixed and matched sockets to make a complete set of 3/4" Mac sockets from 1" to 3" for $100). The only thing you need to watch out for is warranty replacement. It's been my experience that my Snap On dealer refused to repair a couple of ratchets that I purchased at a flea market due to the fact that I didn't purchase them from him. Needless to say I had to speak to his regional manager and got the ratchets repaired free of charge. Craftsman has no such problems. Walk in to any Sears and so long as it doesn't show signs of being abused (hammer marks, vise galling, welding) they replace pretty much anything. They've even let me upgrade wrenches and sockets so long as I pay the difference.

New Britain was a great brand back in the day. I'm not sure when NAPA cut their line quality to the cheaper brands or exactly when the New Britain brand ceased to exist altogether. They have been out of business now for many years. I have some that we purchased in the late 70's when we had heavy equipment. At that time NAPA sold the high quality New Britain line and a line of cheaper stuff. The stuff we have survived the abuse of field repairing earth moving equipment and we still use them today. I only wish I could buy quality tools like those now.