TIG welder decision

[Alxj64]

I am looking at buying my own TIG welder. Right now I am spoiled as I have a friend with an older but huge Syncrowave 250. He bought the machine years back, then went to Afghanistan for a few years for work and I was lucky enough to host the machine in my shop. I used it some but never became super proficient with it, especially with AL. The machine is a block away but is typically buried in the owners projects, out of gas (even though its my bottle) or out of consumables. I feel bad bugging him about using it because it usually requires flopping settings from whatever he was doing to whatever I am doing and then also changing out tungsten, dialing in... etc.

Currently I keep finding myself in need of the TIG on a more frequent basis. I am building a full stainless exhaust for my Carryall Cummins swap project, will be building my own fuel tank, and will be welding various other small parts as well as it would be nice to have the tig for finishing up some body work. Granted the MIG works well, the TIG would just be cleaner, less heat, and I can weld some internal stuff without worrying about setting the interior of the truck on fire with the spatter of the MIG...

So, I am set on buying a machine... The question is...

Do I buy a small machine, that is simple and will weld the stainless, AL, and steel that I need it to, but limited up to 3/16"... The machine I am looking at is about $1400 and is the Hobart 165i. Its 50 lbs, comes with leads, etc, is 230V only. Its 10A - 165A and runs 20% Duty at 150A. The machine is user friendly with just set your amperage, auto post flow, and high freq start. Basic torch and foot pedal included along with regulator. Only draws 23A at 230V at full tilt.

The other machine I am looking at is the new Miller Syncrowave 210. That machine almost twice the money of the Hobart, is rated to 1/4" but its a 5A - 210A machine, rated at 100% duty cycle anywhere around 100A and below. The machine draws similar amperage as its also inverter based. The machine comes with everything as the Hobart, plus it has AC Balance and square wave controls for high end Aluminum oxide cleansing... its got the same "set and forget" mode for the amperage... or dial it in yourself controls like the older syncrowaves... Also this machine will still stick weld... The hobart does not. Additionally the Miller is built on its own cart, with a bottle holder, wheels, so moving around my shop is probably also easier...

I guess I typed all this out to sell myself on the bigger machine. I want the bigger machine... its only money right... tell my wife that.. Ha!

Anyone have experience with either of these machines?

[Desoto61]

I keep dreaming of one too, but just can't justify the $$$$, though I do have a saved CL search going just in case something interesting comes up. Of course I'm in no hurry for it either, which is why it worked well for getting my engine and the Miller plasma I picked up.

I'd seriously take a look though if you haven't yet there were some nice ones locally that were in the price range of the Hobart used, and some of those only lightly.

Personally I have a hard time thinking I'd need more than the Hobart for TIG, as I would want it for lighter and more delicate fabrication work, but I don't do your kind of fabrication often either.

[Alxj64]

I keep dreaming of one too, but just can't justify the $$$$, though I do have a saved CL search going just in case something interesting comes up. Of course I'm in no hurry for it either, which is why it worked well for getting my engine and the Miller plasma I picked up.

I'd seriously take a look though if you haven't yet there were some nice ones locally that were in the price range of the Hobart used, and some of those only lightly.

Personally I have a hard time thinking I'd need more than the Hobart for TIG, as I would want it for lighter and more delicate fabrication work, but I don't do your kind of fabrication often either.

I talked with the guy who has the Diversion 165. He won't move at all on price and its a 3 year old machine, and I don't think its inverter based nor fan on demand. It does come with a bottle, 15 lbs of rod and spare cups...

There is a Square Wave 175 in Willy-ville... I'm not a Lincoln fan anymore simply because the two Lincoln MIGs I had both left me high and dry needing computer parts so I sold them after the repairs.

The CST 280 and the Maxstar are both DC only so no Aluminum... Plus the benefit of the new machine is the warranty...

But it is a LOT of money... makes me sad...

[Gordon Maney]

Buy what you want, not what seems lower priced.

[Alxj64]

Buy what you want, not what seems lower priced.

Tell my wife that one! Ha ha!

[Kevin in Ohio]

I was in the same boat as you several years back. I had my heart set on a Syncrowave 250 and started hitting the auctions and ads. Everything I found was over priced and beat up. Add the unknowns with how it was used and by WHOM, I decided to go for new. It WILL last you a lifetime.

After deciding that I started trying to get the best price and had my eyes opened. My local supplier gave me their "best" price and went from there. Ended up the best deal was from Indiana Oxygen and gas. At that time they were selling on Ebay and still may be doing so. type in the welder you want and look at the other auctions. If they have everything and it's in Indiana, it's probably them.


At that time they were $500.00 cheaper on the machine, free shipping to my door and no sales tax. No brainer. The shipper they used was excellent and was VERY pleased with the transaction.

Save your pennies and get what you want. Start a fund from doing odd jobs and such so it doesn't eat into your normal budget. You will not regret buying a bigger machine. You also have to remember that if you decide to quit/get rid of it the resale will be high if you take care of it.

Just my thoughts and some experience I've had. Kevin

[Aaron S]

You might also look at a Multiplaz. Its a neat machine and may work for what you're doing but you'll have to look at the specs and decide for yourself. All I will say is that I own one and it really does work rather well.

[Alxj64]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I decided to break down and buy the machine that will suit my needs now AND eventually. The Miller Syncro 210 is currently on order and hopefully should be here next week. The option for Pulse GTAW, the stick, expandable pulse, and the broad AC balance controls really were a selling point. Also the fact it was a complete kit with pedals, torch, etc and the entire machine is already on a carriage and will self contain the bottle on the carriage as well, which will allow me a little better mobility in my shop and for transporting the machine to my parents / grandparents for making repairs up there.

Additionally the machine is outfitted with their MVP kit, which is a 115 and 230V dual feature and the machine will auto detect and run on either. This will be nice if I ever end up needing to make a repair somewhere that doesn't have 230V service. I do lose a little bit of amperage and some duty cycle on 115V but it basically just steps the machine down the the Diversion 165 level. Lastly, its an American built machine with local repair sources, parts sources, and a lot of people say that when you buy a miller, you are just paying for an expensive paint color... well, with the paint color comes a lot of history, reliability, and future service.

[Desoto61]

I'm sure it will be worth it the first time you use it, besides think of the cost of paying someone to do the fab or even just final welding for your exhaust, how many of those jobs till you've paid yourself back?

I keep looking at them and thinking. My big issue is the cost for Miller/Hobart even used is massive vs some of the import ones new. The Longeveity/Eastwood units are less than half the cost and the reviews have been pretty good for my type of use.

I'm sure the Miller is a better machine, there are lots of Miller welding machines here at work, and they won't buy crap that doesn't work when it has to be military/nuclear quality and time is money, but for me that's a hard sell for a machine that will see light use.

Even if it's only half the quality though it's still at least half the price of a Miller with similar specs. Of course there's plenty of truck parts I could buy with the same money so it might just be the itch to get a new toy.

[Alxj64]

Its only money, life is only garunteed one time. You can make more parts than you can buy with the TIG. Its a great thing to have. Mine showed up Tuesday and I've had about an hour total to play with it. I've only got about 3 hours of TIG welding under my belt at the best and its been ill-informed, seat of my pants. I've been reading a lot and already I have seen an improvement in my ability. This machine is great on DC but I messed with AC for about 15 minutes on some AL and ohh man is it arc stable, clean, and the AC balance feature for oxide burn off is AMAZING! The AL I used was rather dirty and I only partially cleaned it just to see what the AC balance was all about.. It did exactly what it was intended to do and more than I expected quite honestly. I'm going to try and find some Aluminum scrap to start practicing with this weekend and next week.

In your case, I'd still look long and hard at the Hobart 165i tigmate. Inverter base, clean compact machine, fairly good amperage range, shares consumables with the Miller family, and has a Warranty. It was my fall back machine and I am still on the fence about WHY did I buy such a big machine... but I know I can grow into this machine.

The truck is a toy, your tools are toys.. Buy what you want, buy what you know works, and buy American. I'd rather my money go to the midwest where these machines are built rather than some "importer" in an office in Chicago, NY, or LA that buys a machine from overseas, puts an english, french, spanish, etc sticker on the side and then resells it here. Heck, I'd pay twice the money (which I guess I did) for an American machine than an import simply because of the Company's history.

[Desoto61]

The truck is a toy, your tools are toys.. Buy what you want, buy what you know works, and buy American. I'd rather my money go to the midwest where these machines are built rather than some "importer" in an office in Chicago, NY, or LA that buys a machine from overseas, puts an english, french, spanish, etc sticker on the side and then resells it here. Heck, I'd pay twice the money (which I guess I did) for an American machine than an import simply because of the Company's history.

I like my Hobart MIG and I'm not against American made, but the practical side of me still looks at the $500+ price difference and reduced capabilities vs a TIGWELD 200sx and has to question just how much that name/background means here, and honestly I'm not sure there's the data to make that decision easily. Oh well, more fuel for thought.

[Alxj64]

Well, I've messed with the machine some. I haven't had to weld any AL yet for myself, however a guy I work with has a race car. Someone gave him a body prop stand (yea one of dem kinda race cars) but it was broken and a little too tall and they had another friend try to fix it with a MIG spool gun but I think the guy tried using CO2 mix as it ended up still burning the AL.

Has asked me to try and fix it and if it failed to work he would just toss it and do something different but anything would be better than his "broomstick" ha ha.

I had attempted AL with this machine once already and it was "okay" results. I had only welded Aluminum with a TIG one other time, and even my steel TIG time is minimal, maybe a total of an hour and half of actual time with the torch in my hand.

This machine makes me feel like a pro. The arc is so stable. I was grinning ear to ear. I know its not "perfect" and ooooo... ahhh... but dang, for a first REAL project with Aluminum... I am pleased. This is hollow 0.095" wall Aluminum tube to, not solid.

I really wish I had a better picture.. stupid cell phone.




I also picked up this snazzy little goodie for my 1/16" dia tungsten. Its a Pyrex lense and it is really nice to see past the thing when working up close or around a weird bend. I really dig it all so far. I was afraid I would have buyers remorse on this higher money machine given that everyone says the imports do just as well. I kinda want to go run an import machine now and see if it acts the same way given my lesser skill level. A good welder can make a good weld with even a rough machine. A bad welder however is more suspect to the actual abilities of the machine I would think.

[Frank Irons]

You have chosen wisely! The power of blue!

Frank

[Alxj64]

You have chosen wisely! The power of blue!

Frank

You are correct sir.

One more cool thing... last night a friend brought me a plate with a LOT of welding to be done to it. Instead of burning up my MIG wire and Gas I asked him if he minded if I stick welded it... he didn't mind at all.

All I can say is wow... High Frequency start with a stick welder is a pretty cool feature! The arc balance was really smooth with the inverter stick welder too. Pretty darn cool.

[Kevin in Ohio]

I grew up doing all stick welding exclusively. Got pretty decent at it I guess because people thought I had a TIG welder. Played around on some smaller MIGS and ended up getting a Miller 250X MIG which I love. Bought a Miller 250 Syncrowave too and you can stick weld with it too.

I have never been able to get the Miller to lay as nice of beads as my ancient Forney welder though. Have all the settings per the book but it always makes sloppy looking beads. I been V grooving and using the MIG mostly now but still use the older welder for some things.

These are MIG welds below and you can't argue with how it performs. I'm partial to Miller now but a lot has to do with your dealer. Nice to have an ON HAND parts supplier for consumables!






This is a project I did a while back with the "toys" ;) always fun to make things with them.

http://imageevent.com/kevininohio/wo...0&m=24&w=0&p=0