Florescent lights for shop use...

[Gordon Maney]

I have used florescent lights in my shop for years, and some of the fixtures are getting to be in bad shape. There are some very low cost fixtures available, and I have purchased them in the past. It seems in recent years that the quality of these has declined, marked by the inability to get a tube in some of them, due to how the sheet metal housing positions the tube holders.

My question is this: Do you believe there are higher cost, commercial grade florescent fixtures that are much better to buy, in terms of quality and durability, or do you think they are all about the same, and just buy the cheap ones? What do you think?

Thanks...

[MoparNorm]

Hi Gordon,
It is I, your personal contractor here. ha!ha!

It all depends upon the height of your ceiling. If you have a low ceiling, 8' to 9', then flouresecent lighting is fine and more powerful lights will just give you more heat and not much more illumination.

However if you have a mid to high ceiling, 10' and above (the idea shop height being 14' to 16' feet min.) then you should consider a HID lamp. They can produce great amounts of light and depending upon whether you choose mercury or sodium you can actually change the "color" of the light and increase visibility without increasing the number of lights. Here is a little info I found this AM.
http://www.commlamp.com/productInfo/HID.asp

As far as higher dollar flourescents fixtures, save your money, the output is governed by the type of lamp that you install in the fixture, as long as the ballast and starters are up to the task, you can use almost any fixture, the lamps vary greatly in output depending upon whether they are T-lamps, cool white, brite white, etc. look at the lamps and use the coresponding lamp to fit your application.

Hope this helps.
MN

[Gordon Maney]

Thank you.... my ceiling is 11 feet high.

All of those lights you mention are slow starts, aren't they? You don't just flip the switch and have light, they have to come up?

[MoparNorm]

I haven't noticed,...but then again...I'm a slow starter too! ha!
Yes, some are although in my fever induced state I can't keep them straight. Some take a few moments, not more than 5-10 seconds to ramp up, most newer styles come on immediately but do not reach full intensity for a minute or so.
11' is right on the borderline where flourescents start to lose their effectiveness.
I'll do some more digging after my nap!
MN

[Joe Cimoch]

How are the HID lamps in cold weather? I like the fluorescent because I have low ceilings, but they don't perform well in the winter, mine tend to flicker a lot.

[MoparNorm]

Gordon,
Metal Halide are the slow starters. Ge claims to have 50% quicker starting lamps (whatever that may mean!) Check out their info here;
http://www.gelighting.com/na/specoem/hid.html

I'll dig up what I have on fluoresents also. (such as spelling?) ha!ha!
MN

[Gordon Maney]

Originally posted by Joe Cimoch
How are the HID lamps in cold weather? I like the fluorescent because I have low ceilings, but they don't perform well in the winter, mine tend to flicker a lot.

Joe, I am with you on the cold weather symptoms. In fact, in winter I have often gone to incandescent lights for those times when you are just going out to the building to get something.

[MoparNorm]

Gordon,
The isn't much out there in a high output fluorescent, the top lighting output for a 4' lamp is the F40CW (not the most energy efficient but the brightest) Energt efficient T8 lamps are about 92% of that light output.
8' lamp, max brightness is a F96CW/40.

Joe, flickering is cause by poor quality tequila, uh never mind wrong post, normally it is an indication of a failing ballast, ballasts can be replaced faily easily, are available at Lowes or Depot and be sure to TURN OFF THE POWER first!
MN

[Terry Newton]

Affirmative on the power.

Yea, be SURE and turn off the power first. :)

[Joe Cimoch]

You guys must live in a temperate climate, or more likely have heated garages.

[MoparNorm]

Joe,

Is it only in the winter, that the lights flicker? It could be a problem with your incoming current? The ballast get very hot, it's hard to think that the cold air would do anything to them except IMPROVE the performance. They normally go bad because they break down under the heat load over time.

If the lamps are getting black on the ends but still work while flickering they are probably due for replacement.

Check the ballast and make sure that the wattage is compatible with the lamp wattage, there are several types of ballasts and lamps that all fit into the same fixture and are 120v, but not really compatible. The ballasts need to be matched to the lamps. (if you want really bright lamps that last 25 minutes, install 60 watt ballasts and use 30 watt lamps!) The ballast should say right on them "for two 40 watt F40CW lamps".

MN

[Joe Cimoch]

Its common in cold area to see the flicker. I searced around and found that there are special "cold weather ballasts" to solve the problem.
From http://www.lightsearch.com/resources...ironments.html

I like learning new stuff!!!

Areas That Experience Abnormal Temperatures

The starting and operation of fluorescent and high-intensity discharge (HID) lighting systems can be affected by abnormal temperatures.

In low-temperature environments such as refrigerated areas, fluorescent lamps can experience adverse performance such as "fluttering," reduced light output and difficulty starting by the ballast. In such applications, enclosed fixtures, special "cold weather" fluorescent lamps and/or jacketed lamps can help ensure reliable performance; in addition, fixtures can be located a suitable distance from cold-air source units.

Cold weather ballasts that can start the lamps at temperatures below 0°F should be specified for applications where the ambient temperature is expected to be below 50°F. Cold weather electronic and magnetic ballasts can be specified for HO and VHO lamps that can start them at temperatures as low as -20°F.

See the Table below for minimum starting temperatures for a variety of fluorescent ballasts. HID lamps can start in a wide range of ambient temperatures.



Table. Minimum Starting Temperatures for Typical Fluorescent Ballasts

Ballast
Typical Minimum Starting Temperature


Magnetic w/T8 lamps
+50°F

Magnetic w/standard T12 lamps
+50°F, 0°F

Magnetic w/energy-saving T12 lamps
+60°F

Magnetic w/HO or VHO T12 lamps
+50°F, 0°F, -20°F

Hybrid* w/standard T12 or T8 lamps
+50°F

Hybrid w/energy-saving T12 lamps
+60°F

Electronic w/2, 3 & 4 ft. T8 lamps
+50°F, 0°F

Electronic w/standard T12 lamps
+50°F, 0°F

Electronic w/energy-saving lamps
+60°F

Electronic w/8 ft. "Slimline" T8 lamps
+50°F

Electronic w/HO T12 lamps
+50°F, 0°F, -20°F




*Also called a cathode cut-out ballast




In areas experiencing high ambient temperatures, the ballast can overheat. Class P ballasts contain a thermal protection device that disconnects the ballast from the power source if it begins to overheat. The ballast then cools until an automatic resetter reconnects it to the power supply. If the overheating is not corrected, the process, called "cycling," will repeat itself. In addition, if the temperatures are high enough, ballast life could be shortened and light output reduced.

Fixtures in areas experiencing high ambient temperatures should be well-ventilated. In such fixtures, the heat produced by the lamps generates convection currents that remove the heat. Special HID ballasts can be specified that are designed to operate under high ambient temperatures, or the ballast can be located at a remote location (the distance subject to limitations).

[Gordon Maney]

Originally posted by Joe Cimoch
You guys must live in a temperate climate, or more likely have heated garages.

No, actually it can get very cold here in Iowa; there can be quite a bit of below zero time in a winter. Although, it is unusual for it to get below 10 degrees below zero, fahrenheit, very often. Perhaps once or twice in the winter, and then only overnight.

When it is any lower than about +15 degrees F, I can forget the idea of getting any useful light from those fixtures. I do have a hanging propane heater, but I don't run it that much.

The idea of good lighting that is not affected by low temperature is appealing, but I am uncertain about purchase price and operating costs of some of this more exotic stuff. Plus, I only have about 12 inches between my ceiling and the top of my jib crane that swings an 18 foot arc. So fixture height issues may exist.

[MoparNorm]

Gordon,
Joe was refering to Terry and I, he is also in a cold weather climate. Here in SoCal it gets cold, very cold,...sometimes nearly down to 70 degrees! ha!ha!

Joe, great information about those ballasts! We don't see those out here, possibly in the local mountains, but not down here. That is good to know. Our greatest problem here is keeping them cool, so aparently standard ballast must have an operating range of 50F to 90F and that is it. Above or below that range you get flicker. Looks like I'll be using HID in the new shop!

[Terry Newton]

Why are barns red?

That is a beautiful barn. I bet it cost a billion dollars to build one like that in CA. :)