Tearing down lath and plaster ceilings

[Gordon Maney]

I have torn out quite a few lath and plaster walls, but only one ceiling, a small room about 8 feet square. I am going to be doing two rooms pretty soon, one measuring 16x32 feet and the other about 15x25 feet.

The small room I did once had mineral wool above the ceiling which was really horrible work. But even this will be evil in how dusty it is. My question is this: do you know of any best respirator or dust protection method to use? I am sure once I am into the job I will hate it, but I am trying to make it as tolerable as I can.

Years ago I had torn off all the walls in the 16x32 room, and that was bad enough. I had a 4' by 5' window out of its opening, my Power Wagon backed up to the hole, and I was shoveling the plaster out the hole and into the truck. A great time....

[Ron in Indiana]

Gordon is there any reason you cannot leave the plaster and lath up by simply fastening 2x2s to the joist over the plaster.You will save a huge mess and your health. I believe I mentioned that we did this to my daughter's house last summer when we spoke in Iowa. By nailing or screwing new material to the old joist you can shim the 2x2's to get a more level ceiling and then drywall over the framing. This also allows for new wiring if needed. I don't envy you no matter which method you chose but I'd take mine as the lesser of two evils.

[Gordon Maney]

Yes, I can leave it up, and most I talk to say they would.

I would liken it to the time when I had new siding put on my house. The siders would go right over the old siding. I could not stand the thought of that, leaving all of that old broken, cracked, decayed wood siding on it. So I rented scaffolding and four of us spent a long day pullling off siding.

I felt much better about the job. That is where I am on this idea. I realize it is not necessary, but I want to do it.

[Ron in Indiana]

You must be a glutton for punishment Gordon, ha ha. If your piece of mind is worth more than eating all that dust then have at it.

As for your original question I would say a cartridge type filter mask would be the way to go. Knowing you wear glasses as I do the paper dust masks just don't cut it, makes my glasses fog up from exhaling. The cartridge type will be a lot heavier and hotter to wear but will do a much superior job.

Again I would reconsider tearing it out, but you are the one to decide how intense you want to get with your project.

[Cheyenne Dave]

I agree with Ron about the cartridge type mask, regardless of glasses. Paper masks are in no way up to the task of protecting your lungs from the dangers of plaster.

Old plaster, such as that applied over wooden lath, was often reinforced with horse hair in much the same way that fiberglass is used to strengthen modern concrete. It acted as a binding agent. It also rots and breaks down into nasty things you don't want to breath....ask me about my asthma sometime! Canister type masks are great, and do not restict breathing effort in the way paper masks do.

As for the act of removing the plaster, I applaud your efforts! You will be lightening your framework by tons, and you will have the opportunity to do any wiring or structural upgrades with comparitive ease.

Have at it!

DAB

[MoparNorm]

By all means get a good quality mask!

As Dave said, Do not use a paper 3M mask!
Some older plasters do have those fibers and they are ASBESTOS! So be carefull! It is preferable and healthier to encapsulate it by installing drywall directly over the plaster, but having made the choice, first get a mask that has a fresh air supply, with positive pressure, asbestos is not something to triffle with! Wet the area slightly to contain the dust, seal off the work area with visqueen and duct tape, you do not want that dust migrating into the rest of the house! The house could become a toxic waste dump...Not all plaster of that era had asbestos, but testing will cost hundreds of dollars, more than the price of a good fresh air respirator (which can be used for painting with epoxy paints!). It is safer to assume that the plaster has asbestos than to be cavalier about it and take a chance. Just remember, it's asbestos, not radioactivity, treated properly it can be safely removed, bag it after removal and securely tape the bags closed. Check (discretely and anonymously) with your local disposal regulations to see what is envolved to legally dispose of it. I've removed a lot of it over the years, safely and legally. If you have any questions post or e-mail.
MN

[Cheyenne Dave]

Norm, I would be interested in hearing more information on this. I've not heard of asbestos being used in old school plaster, or what its possible benifit would have been. Gordon didn't mention which generation lath is in the house. I think if the structure is of an age of using hand-split lath, it would be very unlikely have asbestos in it.

Simply taking a few square inches of this plaster and gently crumbling it will likely reveal hair-like strands holding little clumps together. That is the purpose of the horse hair, to bind. Isn't asbestos a relitively short strand fiber?

Other precautions would include gloves, goggles, and a hat. Old plaster is a skin irritant as well. The silica in the plaster gets in your hair and actually cuts the hair strands, so the more body coverage the better. Norms suggestion of keeping the work area tented and damp is a good one as well. Shower as soon as you can after a work session and wash you work clothes seperately.

DAB

[Hoody]

I'm just about done...

doing what you are talking about. 1885 farm house, family owned since built, completely done in horsehair plaster, wood lath, and mineral (rock) wool insulation. We completely gutted the plaster and lath, insulated, and replastered (Cal-Coat). It is a mess, but absolutely worth it. We even faced the studs with strips of the old lathe to make sure the plaster finished in the original spot so the old, now refinished, base and casing still was in same location, and not gapped in corners.

We used canister masks, and am very glad we did. Yes, they were hot, but we didn't have any problems after the tearout. Lots of box fans blowing out of windows also helped. Would highly recommend.

[Bruce]

Sounds Like A

Winter job to me Gordon? Asbestos Abatement (if it is there) no fun or cheap either!
JMHO,

[MoparNorm]

Originally posted by Cheyenne Dave
Norm, I would be interested in hearing more information on this. I've not heard of asbestos being used in old school plaster, or what its possible benifit would have been. Gordon didn't mention which generation lath is in the house. I think if the structure is of an age of using hand-split lath, it would be very unlikely have asbestos in it.
DAB

Hi Dave,
As I stated in my post, it's better to assume that it is present than to spend the money testing or assuming that it is not present. Asbestos is a natural mineral and was used as commonly as plastic is now days. Often asbestos was found in the same quarries as the lime and cement, both prime ingredients in plaster. In the 1900's to 1969 asbestos was purposely added to many products to give them strength and "body", it was used in insulation, gypsum, gypsum board, cement, floor tiles, roof tiles, piping, putty, clothing, blankets, wallpaper, duct insulation, etc., etc. Prior to the 1900's is was not cost effective or reasonable with their technology to even separate asbestos from other materials. Once it's hazards were understood, great care has been taken to separate and refine asbestos from the products that we use. It was once considered a wonder fiber and many, many products incorporated asbestos into their composition. The chance that Gordon's plaster contains asbestos is about 50/50 or better.
MN