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Framing Nailers-Cordless vs Pneumatic

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  • #31
    OK, let's see if I can do this in one post...

    Gordon, I haven't used the Makita, but my thoughts on them are this; light cheap and disposable. The many Makita tools on professional job sites are used because they are cheap in price and cheaply made. The Makita screw guns, for an example, are about half the cost of a Milwaukee and the guys buy them and throw them away after one or two jobs. That's not my philosophy, I buy American Made when possible and keep them for decades. The Hitachi nailer is one of the best out there, light, good balance and durable, liked by many professional nailers, but not American Made, so I didn't recommend it either. If one is determined to send their dollars and the resulting jobs overseas, buy the Hitachi, pass on the Makita.

    Doc, I recommended 8d galvanized because your 3/4" plank is being shot into pine. A very hard surface board into a very soft support board. The air pressure needed to shoot into the hard oak will be higher than required to shoot into the soft pine, an 8d will work fine, a 10 at higher pressure may just blow the oak apart. Bosco is using a thicker board, therefore he needs a longer nail, the 10d. If the oak plank is free or on hand, then go for it, if you haven't bought the planks yet, use Cedar, it's more durable (not stronger but rot and termite resistant) and easier to nail. The best choice in areas that do not have rot, mildew or insects is popular or spruce, won't split or warp as easily and holds paint well. Cedar can be left untreated and unpainted and last for years and insects hate it. Oak is great for strength but you may end up splitting a lot of planks if you nail too closely to the ends or edges.

    Gordon, the stainless steel nail is a VERY expensive nail to buy in quantity, it is unnecessary unless used around corrosive chemicals. The galvanized nail will work just fine at much less cost. As for the new copper napthante (sp?) treated wood, as opposed to the formerly used wolmanizing solutions which have been banned by the EPA, they WILL corrode nails over time. A coated and/or galvanized nail will last much longer than an uncoated or galvanized nail when used in pressure treated lumber.
    MN

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    • #32
      Re: OK, let's see if I can do this in one post...

      Originally posted by MoparNorm
      Gordon,
      I haven't used the Mikita, but my thoughts on them are this; light cheap and disposable. The many Mikita tools on professional job sites are used because they are cheap in price and cheaply made. The Mikita screw guns, for an example, are about half the cost of a Milwaulkee and the guys buy them and throw them away after one or two jobs. That's not my philosophy, I buy American Made when possible and keep them for decades. The Hitachi nailer is one of the best out there, light, good balance and durable, liked by many professional nailers, but not American Made, so I didn't recommend it either. If one is determined to send their dollars and the resulting jobs overseas, buy the Hitachi, pass on the Mikita.
      I am for keeping my money in this country, and do so whenever possible. I enjoy and purchase Milwaukee power tools, and have had really excellent performance and life from them. I gather the Senco nailer is made here?

      This may be naive reasoning, but I wish people would start businesses manufacturing things here that may cost more, and consumers would pay more, to keep the money in this country. Support our own.
      Power Wagon Advertiser monthly magazine, editor & publisher.


      Why is it that the inside of old truck cabs smell so good?

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      • #33
        Thanks everyone for excellent advice.
        When I get to doing the fence I will try and not do what the house framer did in California some years back who accidentally shot himself in the heart with the nailer!

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        • #34
          Senco

          The headquarters and original manufacturing facility is located in Cincinnati, Ohio. I have seen a few products that are made in Japan and Ireland in their smaller gun line and staplers, so they have outsourced some items, Bostich, another American Company also makes almost all of their products overseas now.
          Interesting that Hilti, the largest company in Litchenstein, makes their guns in Tulsa OK. It's becomming increasingly difficult to find American made products, but I draw the line at red china. Most Milwaulkee cordless tools are also made in Japan.
          MN
          Last edited by MoparNorm; 12-03-2005, 03:10 PM.

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          • #35
            Doc ... that's alot of fence line to put up. Sure hope you have some help. I've not use oak for fence rails before, but I have used 3/4" treated pine and they just didn't hold up well to horses. Now, I'm not sure if your keeping horses or other livestock in. The thinner pine rails would break if the horse leaned on it to much. Those also would warp after time, making the fence look bad. I went the cheap way on a section of fence one time by using that thinner pine and will not do that again.

            I do not have any horses today, but debated on replacing the old fence with different materials. Heck, I even considered this PVC manufactured fencing ... but I have not talked with anyone who has used it before. There is a fairly large stable a few miles from me that I believe is using that material and I have been meaning to stop by and check out, but haven't so far. It looks pretty good from a distance and has several advantages. Of course the major disadvantage is cost.

            I too haven't started my fence project, but when the time comes I'm going to have a blast with the old M37 pulling out all those old post. I wonder how many I can pull out at one time without digging a big rut in the pasture. Kinda like a tractor pull ... M37 vs fence post ... lol.

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            • #36
              Bosco,
              I also have some 1" thick pine in addition to my oak. I would prefer all oak but don't have enough. That is good info you gave on the situation with the thinner stuff.
              I have seen some pvc fence around here on some of the farms. I think the people are pretty happy with it, especially as to not needing painting, etc.
              Several years ago our daughter was riding at a stable with PVC. They are a little flimsy when you grab and shake it, but I don't believe they have had horses get out. I can't remember though if they had one strand of electric inside or not.
              BTW, as to pulling posts, have you ever looked at the Army's vehicle recovery manual? In there, I believe, it shows having a chain slip around the base of the post, then wrapping the chain around your rear tire. Then as you pull forward, the post is pulled up and out. Have never tried it myself though.
              Dave

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              • #37
                Hi Doc,
                The advantage of the vinyl fencing is the elimination of dry rot and termite damage. While most residential vinyl fencing has center mounted rails, these fences work fine if the rails are mounted on the inside. Old ranchers learned years ago that mounting the rails, pickets or slats on the inside is the way to prevent the lifestock from pushing the fence out and heading for the hills.
                MN

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                • #38
                  Doc ... I don't believe I have that recovery manual. What's the TM number..? Maybe it's on that CD of manuals I have. Thanks, I'll check it out. Say, anyone else used this method for pulling post..?

                  Your right MN, mount the rails on the inside. But with the PVC fence, the rails go through the center of the post. The post is hollow, but still stout. I understand that the gate and corner post are filled with concrete and rebar for extra strength. If I did put up a PVC fence I would definetly run a hot wire.

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                  • #39
                    Bosco,
                    It is called:
                    Vehicle Recovery and FIeld Expedients
                    I got it from Portrayal Press, and is it the most interesting "old" manual I have. The portrayal press # in the back is 179-6650/15/592/pp
                    also army # A-1645
                    Among many fascinating things it shows how to pull a truck out backwards from a hole, using a front mounted winch!
                    I did not see the post pulling idea in it thogh, I must have seen it elsewhere. It makes sense though. When the wheel pulls the chain up in the arc before going forward, it pulls the post up and then out.
                    Norm,
                    that is correct, cattle especially seem to push against fence as if they are testing it's strength. That is why I think I may run one strand of electric inside just to keep them off it.

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                    • #40
                      Bosco,

                      There are many different types and companies supplying the vinyl fencing. Look for a supplier that does not sell the pre-punched posts, most posts are not pre-punched and have fittings to attach the rails on the inside or in the center.
                      I buy this stuff in bulk and install it to suit the situation. Most fences here in SoCal are for ornamental reasons, but occasionally there are horses or cattle that love to push against the rails, horses will simply eat their way out...ha!ha!
                      MN

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                      • #41
                        Doc ... thanks for the info on that manual, I'll check with Portrayal Press to see if it's still available. Just curious, what is the publication date on it..?

                        Norm ... about that vinyl fencing, I only checked a few mfgs online, but the one that impressed me the most was "A Vinyl Fence and Deck, Inc." ... here's a link to their website. Seems they have a good product and it's manufactured here in the states.
                        http://www.ranchfence.com/index.htm

                        I'm still pretty much leaning toward the traditional 3 or 4 rail wooden fence with hogwire (woven fence) for extra strength. That's typically whats done in this area for horses. Not only does the hogwire add strength, it keeps many unwanted critters out. The average cost of the wire for a 48" height is about 200 bucks for 330 feet, but that does depend on the wire gauge.

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                        • #42
                          December 1952 was the original military publication date. Apparently it originally was classified. They did not want the commies to know all the poop on off roading we learned the hard way, I guess.
                          As I said, it is very interesting. Among other tidbits... how to get a tank out of a mudhole, how to drive a truck (like an M-37) on 3 wheels and so on.
                          With its vintage, Maybe Norm helped write it? haha

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                          • #43
                            Doc....

                            ...if I could reach my cane, I'd whack you one!...ha!ha!
                            MN

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