First Air Compressor?

[Sickcall]

I have an intake and exhaust set up to turn a model "A" engine into an air compressor. I bought it with a sand blast tank which I never used. I never new they did the same on other engines as well. I wonder how well the old 230 would work? The plumbing would be pretty easy, but what about the pressure control. You can't stop and start the engine like an electric motor, so a pressure controlled unloading valve would be necessary.

[JimmieD]

Because of the V-dub's intake design it's not that hard to make a manifold change, where two cylinders receive intake mixture and two draw atmospheric air. On other engines that's pretty hard to accomplish. The Model A unit was designed for an emergency tire fill out in the middle of nowhere and then it was best to later change tubes so that gasoline content would not do any damage.

On the home made compressor an unloader and a flyball governor can be utilized to control reservoir pressures. A simple pop-off valve will work if it is the spring loaded type that lifts a valve off a seat.

In order to build your own compressor you want a modified intake manifold which will pump air to some cylinders or intake mixture to others sequentially to maintain engine balance. As only half the engine is producing power and the other cylinders are only pumping air, and are not receiving crankshaft thrust at TDC explosion, the engine firing order should be followed to choose which pump air and which feed the engine: 1 & 8 fuel, 4 & 3 air, 6 & 5 fuel, and 7 & 2 air. Flywheel momentum maintains rotation on non-firing cycles. Still kind of lumpy, so just tell folks, "Ya, it's got a racing cam....." :~ )

[MoparNorm]

You two must be into the same batch of NorCal loco weed...

ha!ha! engine compressors indeed!
I was at a fellows shop a few weeks ago, it was my first chance to see close-up one of the IR rotary, twin screw compressors, it was very impressive because of the quietness of the unit, you could hardly tell that it was running.
MN

[Gordon Maney]

Re: You two must be into the same batch of NorCal loco weed...

Originally posted by MoparNorm
ha!ha! engine compressors indeed!
I was at a fellows shop a few weeks ago, it was my first chance to see close-up one of the IR rotary, twin screw compressors, it was very impressive because of the quietness of the unit, you could hardly tell that it was running.
MN

I suppose these are pretty expensive?

[JimmieD]

Re: Re: You two must be into the same batch of NorCal loco weed...

Originally posted by Gordon Maney
I suppose these are pretty expensive?

Which, Gordon: the loco weed or the rotary vane compressors? From the looks of things around here the former is affordable enough for any dope to buy, and the latter is best suitable for attachment to a bong for a large party. Look at the map and see that one of the closest towns in my area is WEED, California ha haha! :~ )

The Gardner Denver & Kellog American units and others are far from quiet when you get up into 25K CFM range! I could hear one of my units 1/8 mile away. The small units are very quiet in comparison and depending on the valve mechanism can be nearly silent in operation. On any decent sized unit the pressure unloader makes quite a bit of noise when it dumps, except when the air useage is at maximum. Even then we're talking some serious rpm's so the typical high-speed compressor whine is clearly heard. There's a technically a difference between screw-type and rotary-vane in some ways and the noise of vane rotation exceeds screw impeller noise. Could be that the IR unit that's so silent is actually a screw-impeller type rather than square-vane impeller.

It seems to me that with Ingersoll Rand you are very likely to get what you pay for, depending on what you pay for what you get.

[MoparNorm]

Gordon,

curiosity got the best of me so I went to the IR website. Naturally they do not list prices, but extrapolating from some cost savings information, I guess that the cost is in the $9,000 range, when new. From the Ingersoll Rand website:
Nirvana Compressor;
Matching a standard variable speed inverter with a HYBRID PERMANENT MAGNET; coupled with a time-proven airend, Nirvana represents a stunning advance in compressor technology. This new rotary compressor provides unparalleled energy efficiency at all speeds and offers superb reliability. There are no motor bearings, gears, pulleys, belts, couplings or motor shaft seals to wear out, leak or need replacing. In addition, there is nothing to get out of alignment. Nirvana will lower your operating costs with its dynamic efficiency. It offers truly transcendent technology. At full load, Nirvana will produce the most air using the least energy; and will continue to do so down to loads as low as 20%. Nirvana runs at 95% efficiency throughout its entire speed range.
Nirvana has fewer rotating parts than any other compressor in its class. The HPM motor uses no bearings and directly drives the compressor, eliminating gears, pulleys, belts, couplings and motor shaft seals.
Nirvana's exclusive Hybrid Permanent Magnet motor has revolutionized compressor performance by providing more air over a wider range with no increase in power consumption.



I think I'll wait until they hit e-bay....ha!ha!
MN

[Desoto61]

Figured I'd resurrect this thread vice starting a new one.

I need to move up to a bigger compressor. A friend of mine bought a compressor from these guys, nice stuff, good ratings, and a great warranty. I particularly like the continuous run feature during heavy use.

I've been looking at their selection and I can't decide between their 5hp 60 gallon and the 5hp 80 gallon (single phase vertical tank either way). They have the same motor/pump combo so same output ratings. The 80 gallon adds an automatic drain but that's not a huge plus, I probably won't be using the compressor hard enough to really need it.

This is going to be used for normal hobby work in my garage: air tools, some painting, and running a small blast cabinet. I don't plan to do anything too big like sandblasting frames or body parts, at least not in the foreseeable future.

Is it worth the $150 extra for the 80 gallon tank or will I be fine with the 60?

[Ron in Indiana]

I had the same thoughts when it came time to replace our 40 year old compressor. I bought a 60 gallon Campbell Hausfeld with a 4 piston pump at Harbor Freight and before before anyone flames me for it, it's a good compressor. I have yet to run out of air running all sorts of body tools and grinders. The biggest thing is to get the most cfm rating to keep up with what you are doing. Without going down to the shop I can't remember what my cfm output is but like I said I have plenty of air and reserve.

[MoparNorm]

Ditto with Ron, CFM!
You might check your local Lowe's and Home Depots, they have some pretty large uprights and they are dealing right now.
Their own in-house demo crew, known as forklift drivers, do a pretty good job of dinging the merchandise. If you can find one with a scratch or minor missing part the manager will usually make you a deal.
One of my work compressors is a DeWalt that they lost the dip stick to. I got it 1/2 price, ordered the dipstick direct from the DeWalt tool site, $5.00
= )

[Deathdeelr]

I wouldn't dare knock CH. I bought one for the shop out in Cali when my company took over an operation out there. That was six years ago. Six years of operating a 1" impact gun, blast cabinet, assorted air tools. I was just there over the summer and she's still going strong.

My brother picked up a Craftsman 60? gallon upright, 2 stage 220 compressor from a Sears hardware for under $200. We replaced the unloader relay (it was broken hence the closeout) and it's been running for many years. Small air tools, blast cabinet, etc.

I built my compressor from a number of different sources. I have a Craftsman single stage 14cfm 220V 8 gallon unit I picked up at a yard sale for $20. I replaced the 5 hp stock motor (completely dead) with a 10 hp Robinson that fit the mounts perfectly. I then picked up a 50 gallon air tank from an estate auction that was missing the compressor unit but still had the mounting plates attached. I mounted the 8 gallon tank on the top of the 50 gallon horizontal. Now I have a fairly decent 14cfm compressor that's close to 60 gallons and I've run a portable media blaster, air guns, air over hydraulic lift, etc and have never run into a situation where I'm starving for air. The motor runs on a 220V/20A circuit and fires right up; no slow high amp start up. The oiled compressor is a 50%(?) duty cycle and so far has never seen half that much. I have a 1/2" 200 foot hose that can reach from it's location in my basement to either the driveway for outdoor work to the workshop at the back of the yard for foul weather work.

Harbor Frieght has great stuff and I'm going to be looking into a dual stage compressor head soon as I want to start hard plumbing out to the shop and I want to add a filter unit so I don't need to drag out the hose every time I want to use the lift or an air gun.

[MoparNorm]

Just a quick comment about Harbor Freight. 90% of their tools are cheap imports from China so watch the labels closely.

Often you can buy an old used American made compressor on eBay for less than a new import. It will give you many years service and not contribute to another North American losing their job.

[Deathdeelr]

If you take a really good look at most of the stuff we buy you'll find a label indicating it's made outside the US. We were just talking about Campbell Hausfield. Most of CH's regulators and air tanks are made in China. Briggs and Stratton, the pinnacle of US made small engines since the 40's farmed out their assembly and electronics to Japan and India years ago. In bought a 2500 series Chevy Avalanche; 496 cubes, limited slip diffs, whole 9 yards; a real man's truck, American's truck. The engine had a tag on the valve cover "Made Proud in the USA by Mercury Marine". The first time I had it in the shop for an oil change I wanted to puke. The leaf springs were stamped "Made in Mexico", the driveshaft had a silver sticker from "Shanghai Driveline Inc." The chassis tag had "Mexico" on the assembly plant line. I'm ashamed to say that the "Made in USA" label doesn't mean much anymore.

[Desoto61]

Yes, even the Eaton units I'm looking at. The are based in Ohio but I think they are just assembled there. I'm not sure that the main parts (motor, pump, tank) don't come from outside the country.

[MoparNorm]

Yes, even the Eaton units I'm looking at. The are based in Ohio but I think they are just assembled there. I'm not sure that the main parts (motor, pump, tank) don't come from outside the country.

The Eaton E Locker says Made in USA on it.
A few items are actually coming back home, so look at labels carefully. Some companies like New Balance, are finding out that china wasn't the bargain they thought is was and they are bringing about 30% of their manufacturing back to the USA.
Many European brands are actually made in the USA because Euro-Unions and labor rates are even higher than here.
Some examples of why label shopping can help our economy:
Hilti- Tulsa, Oklahoma.
Toshiba, Tulsa
Honda Lawn mowers, Marysville, Ohio.

[HRT5SLCFD]

Eaton

I got this unit, comes with a 5 year warrenty, pumps 35 CFM. I love it. Had to redo all gauge of wire in the shop. Hint (just go big wire the first time).