3 Wall Tub Surrounds

[bosco]

The tile that covers the walls of one of our bathtubs is in sad shape and I was thinking of replacing this tile with a 3 wall tub surround. I see that there are many materials available from several manufacturers and was wondering if anyone has had any experience with them. Never having installed one of these kits, I would think it would be a fairly simple task and much less labor involved than tile.

I checked out a kit on the internet that uses the Dupont material "corian", which is available in several different colors. I am familar with the "corian" countertops and would assume that the tub surround would be very similar in appearance. From my reseach so far, this looks the best. But, if any of ya'll have installed another material I would like to hear about it.

I'm just looking for another alternative to using tile and these tub surrounds look like a possible answer. I would greatly appreciate any feedback as to the disadvantages, advantages and your thoughts of this system.

Thanks...

[BobbyMike]

I have put in these type units before (but not a corian one). Very easy to do. Take your time, don't rush it. Make sure you have everything you need before you start. I'd recommend pulling all the tile off first so you can replace any bad sheetrock underneath the tile. I always replace all mildewed 'rock as you can't get rid of the mildew once it's in the gypsum. Replace it with greenboard. Measure everything several times before cutting, and make sure you understand how it all goes together before you start. Have fun, it's way easier than tiling (not to mention quicker).

[MoparNorm]

If you are using the fiberglass surrounds, you'll have to remove the tile AND the drywall first, as these are designed to nail to the stud walls themselves.
If you are using Marlite or FRP, the surrounds will be attached over the drywall, but the tile must still be removed to allow a good attachment point for the glue. The fiberglass kits should come with adhesive or caulking to prevent leaking at the seams, the Marlite/FRP panels require seam pieces and I wouldn't recommend them for tubs that also have showers.
MN

[bosco]

At this time I have removed all the tile and noticed that ordinary sheet rock was utilized as a backerboard (shame on the builder). I'm sure there are building codes that would require a waterproof material be used as a backerboard instead of plain old gypsum. After removing several pieces of the rock, it appears that there is no mold and the wood framing still looks good. I will know more when the demo is complete.

I have heard that the greenboard is not that well suited for a wet enviorment, so my plan is to replace all of the rock from the ceiling down to the tub with a cement fiber board like "durock" or "hardiboard". I believe that material will give me many years without ever having to replace it.

I'm not familar with the product called Marlite, what exactly is it..? I have looked at Swanstone as a tub surround, but it appears a bit to plain for my taste. I'm not saying that Corian is the only answer, but it seems to be the most appealing from what I have seen. Of course, I am open to other products as well.

Thanks again...

[BobbyMike]

The Durock/hardiboard is a great idea. If you (or someone else) ever decides to tile in the future it will be very much appreciated.
I've stopped using greenboard for undelayment when I tile. I always back it with Durock/hardiboard.

[MoparNorm]

...I have heard that the greenboard is not that well suited for a wet enviorment, so my plan is to replace all of the rock from the ceiling down to the tub with a cement fiber board like "durock" or "hardiboard". I believe that material will give me many years without ever having to replace it...

I'm not familar with the product called Marlite, what exactly is it..?
Thanks again...

Actually "greenboard" or water resistant drywall is well suited for a wet environment, that's what it was designed for*, however if you use "durock" or hardiboard that will be better. Marlite is a FRP panel, FRP is "Fiberglass Reinforced Panel" it's not really suitable for what you are doing as it is primarily an industrial type wall covering, you'll see it in "service" station rest rooms, etc. They have a "fancy" residential line but it's more like 'formica' or plastic laminate panels. If you are going with Corian or a similar type material, that will be fine. Corian is a brand name for "solid surface" counter tops (or wall panels) and you will pay for that name. There are several other brands that are less expensive and have different color and style options.
Good luck and post photos!
MN
* WR board, or greenboard is much less expensive and easier to work with than cement boards, it can be made to last as long by skimming it with latex adhesive, using a cement trowel to give it a 1/32 membrane that is water proof. Then apply your panel or solid surface adhesive per the manufacturers specifications for a good bond. If you use cement board, you should seal it in this manner also, as cement is not waterproof, only water resistant and the mositure will eventually migrate to the wood framing.

[HWooldridge]

Bosco,

Both of our bathrooms were in similar shape - a mess of bad grout and leaks from the original construction in the 1970's. I did the demolition, mold remediation (that means I sprayed bleach where I saw any mildew) and installation of new sheet rock. I used the green WR type then taped and floated with a WR mud and fiberglass tape.

We then had a contractor come in and install an artificial Venetian marble 3 sided surround. As I recall, it was not very expensive and he was happy to do the install since I had already completed the nasty work. We have really HARD water so lime gets everywhere but the "marble" has held up to repeated cleaning and no cracks anywhere, even though this house shifts all the time depending on moisture.

BTW, Corian is good stuff. I worked for a company who installed both this and conventional plastic laminate counters - the Corian easily won on appearance and durability. My only caution is that any sharp corners/edges can be chipped fairly easily so you have to be careful in handling it.

[creinemann]

I should have read this post yesterday, While taking a shower my old vinyl tub cracked! In a one bathroom house! I just spent the the day gutting and replacing my tub with a three piece unit from Kohler. Of course the wife now wants to remodel the rest of the bathroom to match. That's fine, I'll be in the garage.....

[MoparNorm]

That's a drag...= (
The main reason those fiberglass/vinyl tubs crack is because the installer did not place adequate support under the bottom. We usually dry fit the shower or tub pan and then spray two or three cans of expanding foam under it, then inbed the tub into the foam. Tubs are easy because you can then fill the tub with water to hold the tub in place until the foam cures and prevent the foam from lifting the tub (that's funny looking but not very acceptable). The foam makes a solid pad underneath the tub floor and prevents the bottom from cracking under a heavy load.
MN

[Sickcall]

Many people are under the misconception that tile installations are waterproof. The only component in a tile installation that is water proof is the tile itself, and maybe the membrane that may have (or had not) been installed beneath it. The grout, the motar, the hardiboard, and the green rock are in themselves impervious to water but will all transmit moisture, right to the substrate screw or nail which will then wick the water into the framing. Think of all the grout lines in a tile installation which have the potential to transmit moisture. Without a good self healing membrane on the substrate, a tile job will be lucky to last 10 years. The best product that I have seen used as a membrane is a product called "Hydrament" made by Burke. You can either trowel or brush it on with a respirator and good ventillation (manditory). There are other products available but this one was the product of choice from the custom tile setters in the houses that I have built. I have also used it in the construction of locker/shower rooms of a health club and around the indoor therapy pool of a physical therapy center.

My opinion of of a good shower enclosure is one that has a minimum of joints, and the potential for less leaks. A 3 piece unit is good but a single unit is better. Maybe not in the appearance of construction/material but in its performance as a water barrier. In this case less expensive can actually be better.

My neighbor once had his fiberglass jetted tub split the seam right down the middle when his wife was in the tube. The bottom of the tub was not properly supported, and the builder of this home made all the necessary repairs for the tub replacement and to the downstairs water damage. The pans that I have install in showers in medical facilities (which are ADA compliant) use a concrete slurry mixture poured underneath to hold the weight of the patient and their wheel chair. Its the same concept as the foam but the slurry being the manufacturers recommended method of installation.

[DDEMILLE]

FRP correction

Sorry, Norm, I never thought I would correct YOU, but FRP stands for Fiberglass Reinforced Plastic. The plastic usually being polyester resin.
Doug

[MoparNorm]

Ha!Ha!
I stand corrected!
MN

[bosco]

After a few discussions with the wife it appears we may be removing the bath tub and replacing it with a shower pan. My first thought was, ok now I will have to relocate the drain. But, I see that there are retro fit pans that are made especially for this application and relocating the drain is not necessary. Although they are a bit pricey. Swanstone is the manufacturer of the pan I am looking at as I cannot find corian that makes one.

Now that we are going with the retro fit pan, I like your idea Norm about using the expanding foam as a stablizer. Any ideas on how to keep the pan in place as the foam sets up..? I guess I could set a couple spare tires in there to hold it in place. The concrete slurry mix is another good idea. Any thoughts on how to remove a cast iron tub, 'cause I ain't gonna be abe to move it (must weigh 300+ pounds). Maybe a sledge hammer will reduce the weight.

Sickcall, you mentioned moisture seeping into the framing because of lack of a membrane. I have heard of attaching roofing tar paper directly to the studs (overlapping the joints) and then sealing the paper to the shower pan (or tub flange) using a waterproof silicon. Then you install the backer board over the paper. Has anyone used this technique..?

Thanks for the input, some great ideas here.

[BobbyMike]

A sledge will work. Wear eye and ear protection and you might want to cover everything else with packing blankets (or the like).

[MoparNorm]

Yes, the sledge will work, and protection is a must! Those things shatter and fly with explosive force, but that's the best way to remove them.
To keep the pan in place, you'll need something that weighs enough to displace the weight of the foam, like bags of sand or cement (50 to 90 lbs, depending upon the size. Just place them evenly so that the pan remains flat and or level.
Yes, you need something like building paper behind the backer board. The building paper is NOT roofing paper but accomplishes the same task, you could also use Tyvek or a similar membrane.
MN