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  • Cutting sub-floor flush to finished wall

    As part of my remodeling work I had to deal with the edge of a floor and the way it was intersecting with a stairwell opening. We would normally expect a sub-floor over joists and then a flooring layer on top of that.

    In this case, the visible flooring was a charming, old, purple linoleum that had been there for many years. Under that was what we would, today, call a sub-floor. It is a 5 inch, pine, tongue and groove material. No grain figure at all, yet it was, apparently, the finished floor at that time. This house was built in two pieces. One in about 1885 and the other in about 1904. This that I am describing is in what we might term the new wing of the facility.

    These boards are loose and unsuitable with respect to hoped-for structural integrity, so they must go. I will replace this layer with 3/4 inch plywood. The adjacent walls are finished, having been done quite a few years ago. As such, they effectively run under the wall. I have to cut them flush with the wall, so that I can fit the plywood right up to the wall, so that this new sub-floor can properly support the new finished floor.

    The question: How can I cut flush with the wall. The only way I have thought of thus far is to use a reciprocating saw [Milwaukee Sawzall], working along between the joists on the wall that runs perpendicular to the joists. I could set my circular saw at 3/4 inch and run alongside each joist, and then cut out the spaces between with the Sawzall. I think I would have to chisel the pieces immediately on top of the joists. The other wall that runs parallel with the joists should be easier, allowing a continuous cut with the Sawzall, I hope.

    People have been fond in the past of saying that they don’t build things like they used to. I think, very often, we are very lucky that such is not the case.

    Any thoughts on this situation, regarding how to cut this layer out flush with the wall?

    No surprise, this large, L-shaped floor is not totally level, either. At one end of the L, there is a run that is level for about 3 feet, then it runs uphill for about another 3 feet, and then it runs back downhill for the remaining 4 feet or so. You don’t feel these changes when walking on it, but a level reveals it rather dramatically.

    I could do some shimming under the new sub-floor prior to installation, so as to level the entire run, but I would necessarily end up shimming the entire L-shaped hall up, a tedious matter, and also it would create elevation issues at various doorways, something I would like to avoid.
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    Why is it that the inside of old truck cabs smell so good?

  • #2
    This is the staircase in the stairwell. I would really like to replace these stairs with something more substantial and more attractive. I can refinish them, but they are not well made, and are not an attractive species of wood.

    Replacing the stairs would be a major project, and also would create a problem in accessing the second floor during the time the work was occurring.

    I have long thought that building a new staircase would allow a neat detail in the remodeling; an example of craftsmanship. I do not underestimate the difficulty, however, in doing an excellent job. I think the final material cost, doing it in oak or other suitable hardwood, would be considerable, also.

    Any thoughts on a strategy for making progress and also maintaining access to the second floor?
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    Why is it that the inside of old truck cabs smell so good?

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    • #3
      Gordon,
      Looking at the pics, I'd cut the existing floor flush with that joist that's closest to the wall, and then "sister" that joist with another 2x8 piece to nail the new floor to.

      If there is a slight height difference, you could cover the entire area with 1/4inch luan to smooth out the transitions. (or sand the transition with a portable belt sander)

      I'm not a carpenter, just a "do-ityerselfer".

      Eric

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      • #4
        Originally posted by sign guy View Post
        Gordon,
        Looking at the pics, I'd cut the existing floor flush with that joist that's closest to the wall, and then "sister" that joist with another 2x8 piece to nail the new floor to.

        If there is a slight height difference, you could cover the entire area with 1/4inch luan to smooth out the transitions. (or sand the transition with a portable belt sander)

        I'm not a carpenter, just a "do-ityerselfer".

        Eric
        That would work at the end where the length of the hallway runs perpendicular to the joists — I could do exactly what you say — but what about the long side of that run of hall? I could not do that there.
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        Why is it that the inside of old truck cabs smell so good?

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        • #5
          Morning Gordon,
          The 5 boards that I'm seeing in the first post are the 5 in question, with the board painted white being 30 %-50% under the existing finished wall?
          There is a good chance that when you cut and remove the first 4 boards, that you can use a pry bar to remove the last board by force. The nails should pull out without harming the wall above.

          FIRST, look underneath to insure that there is support under that wall! There may not be the proper blocking, and in that case you'll have to cut it out using a sawzall.

          You can use a long wood cutting blade and holding the saw above the floor so that only an 1" or so of the blade is penetrating, you'll be able to cut on a slight angle right next to the wall. Be sure to layout the joists location first so that you do not cut them by accident.

          It takes practice, as if you hold the saw up too high the blade will bounce out of the cut, too low and the blade cannot cut close enough to the wall, or cut too deep and you may cut something underneath that shouldn't be cut.....

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          • #6
            Its looks like a nice job of marrying the new engineered product to the old!

            From your picture I think I would be inclined to leave the 5th course which extends under the wall plate, if it is the same dimension (or close) as the 3/4 ply. You may need to add blocking under the edges of the 2 materials where they adjoin as 3/4 ply may be a little spongy. On the opposite ends you should just scab a few blocks on the existing joists to carry the load of the ends of the sheets. If the materials are a little off you can shim up the ply with felt or other stock.

            Your photos bring back many fond memories as my whole childhood was spent watching and assisting my father in the remodel of a 1907 four square Victorian of 5000 sq ft with a day light basement. The exterior and the interior were completed including replacement of the foundation, and it was the finest home in our town at the time. The extensive wainscoting, 12" baseboard, and spiral stairs and banister were all out of quarter sawn oak. Its was only finished after I graduated from college.

            Good luck on your project Gordon! Wish I could be there to lend a hammer.

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            • #7
              I rented a toe-kick saw for $20. It presents a small circular saw, runs along the floor and applies the saw blade flush against the wall, or nearly so. It was supposed to cut 3/4 in. deep, but fell just a touch short of that. No matter, a nice separation line.
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              Why is it that the inside of old truck cabs smell so good?

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              • #8
                Here is where I am at this time....
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                Why is it that the inside of old truck cabs smell so good?

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                • #9
                  Perfect!
                  Now "flat" block around the perimeter where the wall is so that you have nailing support at all the edges in addition to the joist. Then, after prefitting the plywood, glue and screw it down with those 1 5/8" -2" grabbers. You'll never have a floor squeak if you do it that way....

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                  • #10
                    Nice work Gordon.

                    Looks like what I still need to do to my house.

                    Love the pictures, gives me some ideas.

                    Keep them posting, would love to see how it progresses.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MoparNorm View Post
                      Perfect!
                      Now "flat" block around the perimeter where the wall is so that you have nailing support at all the edges in addition to the joist. Then, after pre-fitting the plywood, glue and screw it down with those 1 5/8" -2" grabbers. You'll never have a floor squeak if you do it that way....
                      What do you mean by flat block? Put joist height blocks between the joists, oriented narrow face up, as a joist would be? Or are you putting the broad face [width of the board] up?
                      Power Wagon Advertiser monthly magazine, editor & publisher.


                      Why is it that the inside of old truck cabs smell so good?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Hawk View Post
                        Nice work Gordon.

                        Looks like what I still need to do to my house.

                        Love the pictures, gives me some ideas.

                        Keep them posting, would love to see how it progresses.
                        What do you need to do?
                        Power Wagon Advertiser monthly magazine, editor & publisher.


                        Why is it that the inside of old truck cabs smell so good?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sickcall View Post
                          Its looks like a nice job of marrying the new engineered product to the old!

                          From your picture I think I would be inclined to leave the 5th course which extends under the wall plate, if it is the same dimension (or close) as the 3/4 ply. You may need to add blocking under the edges of the 2 materials where they adjoin as 3/4 ply may be a little spongy. On the opposite ends you should just scab a few blocks on the existing joists to carry the load of the ends of the sheets. If the materials are a little off you can shim up the ply with felt or other stock.

                          Your photos bring back many fond memories as my whole childhood was spent watching and assisting my father in the remodel of a 1907 four square Victorian of 5000 sq ft with a day light basement. The exterior and the interior were completed including replacement of the foundation, and it was the finest home in our town at the time. The extensive wainscoting, 12" baseboard, and spiral stairs and banister were all out of quarter sawn oak. Its was only finished after I graduated from college.

                          Good luck on your project Gordon! Wish I could be there to lend a hammer.
                          What does four square mean? A great dedication to that house your father must have had.
                          Power Wagon Advertiser monthly magazine, editor & publisher.


                          Why is it that the inside of old truck cabs smell so good?

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                          • #14
                            The architectual term "four square" was for a home that was built perfectly square with an equal dimensioned gable dormer on each 2nd story elevation. Each elevation was usually built symetrical, excluding the front porch.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Gordon Maney View Post
                              What do you mean by flat block? Put joist height blocks between the joists, oriented narrow face up, as a joist would be? Or are you putting the broad face [width of the board] up?
                              "Flat" block, is face side up, ("on edge" is how the joist sit) such as the end 2x4 at the start of the soffit in your second photo.

                              Flat block at this location, along the entire wall where the outlet is:

                              On the other wall you might be able to "scab" a 2x4 onto the joist that is just under the wall, but from the photo it's hard to see just how close to the edge the existing joist is to the opening. Either was, the perimeter MUST have solid blocking, you cannot "float" the plywood out into space, no matter how small the distance, you'll always have flex that will cause squeaking and any load will be unsupported.

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