Corian & solid surface fabrication

[Gordon Maney]

I think I would like to fabricate a large shower stall from Corian or similar material. Are there any folks here who have worked with such materials? If so, what are your views on this kind of material and fabrication techniques and issues?

Peripheral to these issues, web searches also bring up things pertaining to stone fabrication, which I take to be artificial stone. I think Corian would be better for a shower with regard to cleanability.

Discuss....

[Cheyenne Dave]

I think I would like to fabricate a large shower stall from Corian or similar material. Are there any folks here who have worked with such materials? If so, what are your views on this kind of material and fabrication techniques and issues?

Peripheral to these issues, web searches also bring up things pertaining to stone fabrication, which I take to be artificial stone. I think Corian would be better for a shower with regard to cleanability.

Discuss....

Gordon,

I have worked with Corian quite a bit. It has become the "Q-tip" brand of the solid surface industry. Although Corian is a DuPont product, there are many variations on the theme. I used to sell it by the sheet when I was in the wholesale plumbing business, when anyone who could afford it could buy it. Since then, DuPont, and probably many of their competitors, have adopted policy that allows only certified shops and vendors to buy and install their product. This is to protect brand-name integrety and cut way back on warrentee claims. The biggest area of concern is glue joints, where individual pieces are bonded. They are the hallmark of a good installer.

There may be kit enclosures sold through the big box yards and stores, but you would not enjoy the same level of quality and performance offered by a solid surface professional.

This stuff can run into cubic dollars, depending upon the square footage involved. Kitchen countertops can run as much as the cabinetry. I really like the material when used as a one-piece vanity sink/counter top. For a shower or tub, I guess I like the cost/value/durabilty of a nice tile job. There are those grout lines to deal with, but tile is less concerned with the types of cleaners you can use, and hard to scratch or chip. It is extremely durable and you can intall the whole job yourself ( I am speaking generally here...not everyone can or should try this at home).

On Corian's side, it can be polished to a ceramic gloss, left matte, or anything in between. If scratched, it can be repaired easily with various grits of sandpaper and/or Scotch-Brite pads. If chipped or cracked, it can be repaired by a technician. Cracks can be caused in counter top accidents, such as setting a hot skillet on a seam or by using a pancake griddle where you shouldn't. It can also be brittle enough to crack if not properly supported or kept from wide temperature fluctuations.

Solid surface vs. artificial stone. Solid surface can be readily shaped and formed, while artificial stone...not so much. In the case of vanity or counter top applications, the artificial stone/marble is usually custom made from a remote location, and then installed.

I have probably missed a few points, but I'm sure Norm will chime in any minute now. I haven't had any real hands-on in a few years now, so there are very likely some advancements and updates.

C.D

[Gordon Maney]

I can enjoy the look of tile, but every installation I have ever seen failed after some years, including decay from water getting behind it. Plus, my rural well water has occasional issues that cause staining to be a problem, and grout lines I think would be awful things to deal with in that regard.

My first choice, though not a happy one cosmetically, would be all stainless steel, so it would be impervious to cleaning chemicals.

I hit upon Corian thinking I could make a leak proof installation and it could be scoured with abrasive cleaners if needed. Maybe all bad thinking....

[pieter]

In Hawai`i a few years back, my dad had his bakery next to a business that would do the corian counters and anything else. I'd go over there and watch them at times do the seamless sinks and join the material together and magically watch the seam disappear as they sand down the joint. Eventually they would sand the entire thing and at each step, go to a finer sandpaper. Then buffing it out, the joint would totally disappear.

My dad inquired on a table that was pretty big (about 12'x10)' and it was going to cost a small fortune. Needless to say, he didn't buy one.

Doing a full shower enclosure in corian would be very nice, but I could see it getting very expensive. Especially if the DIY'er is not able to buy the bulk material and do it themselves....

Pieter

[Cheyenne Dave]

I can enjoy the look of tile, but every installation I have ever seen failed after some years, including decay from water getting behind it. Plus, my rural well water has occasional issues that cause staining to be a problem, and grout lines I think would be awful things to deal with in that regard.

My first choice, though not a happy one cosmetically, would be all stainless steel, so it would be impervious to cleaning chemicals.

I hit upon Corian thinking I could make a leak proof installation and it could be scoured with abrasive cleaners if needed. Maybe all bad thinking....

Well, you certainly cut down on the number of seams with the use of solid surface. And you can always check with the manufacturer for recomended cleaning solutions. Leaks are very unlikely as well.

But there is no reason for a good quality tile job to leak, ever... unless your building is seismicly unstable. I have worked in many bathrooms and kitchens, 50 to 100+ years old, where the tile work is in remarkable condition. A solid substrate is key, as well as proper installation of the tub or stall. There are some very good technical publications that outline these techniques and proceedures quite well.

No matter which way you go, you are looking at a premium job. Try very hard to design your bath with alternative access to your plumbing...an adjoining closet is ideal. Opening up any of these materials for infrastructure repair/replacement is a down-right drag.

But I gotta admit...stainless has it's appeal!

C.D.

[MoparNorm]

Stainless, slick, noisy, and expensive....= )
Yes Dave, I was lurking...ha!ha!
Gordon, ANY shower application is vulnerable to leaks, the key is the liner which is installed prior to the finish material. The liner is critical.
In the old days there was the typical "hot mop" liner, installed by a roofer, very messy for a remodel, and prone to leaking as it ages, since the hot tar cures as a brittle, non pliable membrane, once it contracts or expands you will have a crack, that crack will eventually leak.
Modern showers use a vinyl liner that is glued into place. Easier, less messy for a remodel, but the seams and joints are glued and the liner is only as good as the glue joints.
When installing tile I use the hot mop for just the pan, and then vinyl, which runs up the wall about 1' above the top of the enclosure, after that I install Wonder Board, Durock, or Hardy board, on the walls only, the floor is a mortar bed. Before placing the tile I skim coat the wall with the tile mastic, a complete, thin layer that I allow to cure overnight.
The tile joints should be very tight, I use 1/16", it looks more contemporary and is less prone to cracking, whether you use ceramic tile, porcelain, stone (real) or any other product. It is also easier to keep clean (a whole house water filter with a carbon canister can cure your water issues) .

You are beginning to see why some folks just put in a one piece fiberglass shower and are done with it...ha!ha! Although I've seen fiberglass installed incorrectly and it too can leak if it starts to crack due to inadequate support.
I've never installed a corian shower, but I'd suspect that, out side of the cost, it would work fine. As in most "sectioned" installations it is important that the pan is one piece and returns up the wall so that your bottom seam is not at the very bottom, but about 6" up the wall from the bottom.
Most of my upper end showers are tile or real stone, none have leaked ...yet...with the oldest installation nearing 30 years.

[JimmieD]

I think the single most beautiful shower enclosure I've ever seen was one done in redwood by friends. Redwood has a lot of natural oils if I remember correctly and resists insect pests and mildew.

The fella that built it was a master carpenter and the other guy that sealed it used to make rather famous competition surfboards in San Diego. We had an 'in' up there in northern California to score some birdseye redwood, breathtakingly beautiful! It used joinery of a type used in Swedish sauna such that it was steam tight.

Once the enclosure was formed the other man used his fiberglassing experience to seal and coat. I don't know if the West System materials were available back then but it was stuff that is fully resistant to salt water and designed for blue water boats. The entire unit was sealed, ceiling, walls and floor, as if it was a boat hull. Leakage was quite impossible.

As it was coated with progressive coats the visuals were astounding! Out from ths intricately grained redwood with its swirls and sweeping grains and birdseyes came colors that were unimaginable! Yes, it was 'red'wood, but suddently you could see reds, oranges, yellows, purples, blues, greens in a breathtaking rainbow of indescribale grain structure, and it was irridescent. That is, the colors were as if they moved depending on the angle it was viewed from. Several high windows allowed the day's sunlight to dance across the surfaces for a continual moving show of light refracting throughout the spectrum.

Many epoxy products used in blue water boats, such as West System, are entirely impervious to high pressure salt water and have been proven to hold up faultlessly for years. These products are used on the hull and joinery in $500,000 to multi-million dollar yachts that are used for extensive journies around the world, in all sort of the fiercest weather and ferocious storms out on the blue water.

[monkeymissile]

a low cost alternative, perfect for the DIYer..

A few years ago I had a custom bathroom vanity cast in concrete. I used a 3/4" thick clear acrylic nose cone from some sort of missile as the bowl. I went to the guy's shop and the fabrication was painfully simple and with simple colorings, the typical gray concrete was transformed into something quite beautiful. It was finished with Tried-and-True beeswax/linseed oil and the water just beads up. I asked him about doing a shower and he said that he'd just cast sheets to whatever thickness and mastik them to the backerboard and silicone the joints. I suppose you could also trowel it in place over a wire mesh for a completely seam-free installation.

[JimmieD]

Ahhhh, a true artists lurks around your home! Yipes!!!

Hey, Gordon, I don't have a missle nosecone, but I've got a nice old round 5 gallon gas can you could whack the top out of and maybe work it in as a sink with a Power Wagon Pooper theme? Gas can is faded with some great rust patina, you know, ambiance.....

[monkeymissile]

Jimmie,
I guess that was a compliment? :-)
Anyway, it was a fun project to fabricate the stainless frame and spout from scratch and install the foot pedals. Had I only known how easy the concrete was, I'd have done that too!

[Joe Flo]

Gordon,

Just buy a prefabricated fiberglass shower stall (or tub w/ enclosure) at a local plumbing supply shop. They have better quality products than the big box stores. It is less money than Corian, comes with built in shelves and/or soap holders and they go in much faster. I have had no problems with the ones installed my house.

Joe

[BobbyMike]

Gordon, here's a link to a place where you can buy sheets of solid surface materials:
http://solidsurface.com/
They also sell the appropriate adhesives.
Nice thing about these products is that you can use woodworking tools to rout edges and cut the sheets (with carbide bits and blades).
I "rehab" old kitchen and sink counters into various "clay" boards (for the kids), jigs for the shop, etc.
Great material. I'll be interested to see what you end up doing.
I'd still back it the way Norm does, with Wonder Board, etc.

I've seen some beautiful showers done in concrete. The nicest had small river stones set in the floor. Yummy, and felt great under your feet.

[BobbyMike]

Here's a link to a place that makes solid surface shower pans:
http://www.royalstoneind.com/products_Shower.asp

[BobbyMike]

I used a 3/4" thick clear acrylic nose cone from some sort of missile as the bowl.

Where'd you get the nose cone? I thought all the cool military surplus was out west.

[W_A_Watson_II]

Corian scratches easily, I know our first time having guest over to the new home, someone slid one of the serving dishes across the counter, and when we cleaned up, there were the resulting scratches.