Alex's '42 WC53 Carryall Build Details - Cummins ISB170

[Alxj64]

Well, its a new year and I still have this old truck. I haven't touched the transmission issue at all, I just have been moving the truck in and out of the garage some as needed and not really driving it anywhere. Its been raining and raining and raining anyways, so I can't even put the truck outside for me to work on other things either. Two days after Thanksgiving, I had to put down my shop bud Wheeler Dog. His health crashed very quickly during the month of November. We don't have kids and he was almost 10 so my wife and I have been rather devastated. Between that nightmare, the weather, the Holiday travels, rush, chaos, I have accomplished very little with the truck.
I have been working on my passenger's seat frame and have just recently started to do some other misc body work on the truck so that I can get to building my window boxes and get the interior finalized enough to drive this thing around some in the spring. I'm not doing any major body work to the truck other than fixing a few really rough repairs that were done poorly in the past. Beyond that, it will get rough sanded and painted. Enough screwing around, I have other things to do in life and time is catching up to me quicker than I ever expected and this is taking a million times longer than originally planned. This May I will have owned this thing for 7 years... SEVEN.. uggh.

When I got the truck from Lee, it had been smashed, so I had to cut the interior body panel out on the passenger's side to fix some dents and holes, etc. Well, he had already cut it out in the past and applied a ton of roll on sound deadening and jute mat, etc. So now, between the two separate cut processes, welding this thing back in has become quite the challenge. I've tacked backing bar strips onto the seams where I could to help "back-up" the weld similarly to how heavy structural welding joints are assembled. Going slow though still.

I still need to finish closing in the shifter box, finish up my onboard air system and finalize the plumbing for the air shift transfer case, wire up my cruise control switches, install the HVAC under the dash, figure out my paneling systems for the roof... AND... ohh yea... Replace the fawking transmission... uggh.
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[Greg Coffin]

Alex, it doesn't take much to understand how frustrated you must be. I've been there with my projects, as I think most of us have. There are days I just want to take a baseball bat to the thing and set it on fire. Scream myself hoarse while I watch it burn to the ground. My own private little Burning Man. But thankfully the urge passes, and then progress begins again. It just takes time to let the frustration filter out of my system. Sometimes I have to stay away from the shop for a week or two until I start to miss the project.

The paint on my 6x6 is an excellent example. It's flaking and chipping off the metal. It was a simple mistake - a $4000 mistake not of my own making - but it's mine now and the whole cab and front end have to come apart and get redone. It makes me crazy, but there it is and it has to be dealt with. So I'm focusing on fabricating the bed as I prepare myself to undo the front bodywork. Then get it all done together at the end. It sucks, and that's that.

But to have someone tell you that you deserve this to happen to you, that's outrageous. Sounds like one of those people who can't stand to see someone else succeed at something. You're a better man, don't let it get under your skin.

[Matthew Welcher PWA]

Alex, I feel your frustrations. One who has literally poured there heart and soul into a project of this magnitude as you have deserves it to go without problems. Your wife will understand, maybe not today, or tomorrow but soon she will look at you and say, If anyone can make this go and go right it is you.
I have read and seen enough of the way you two are that she fully supports you.
As far as the guy who did the transmission work, lets for a moment set him on the shelf next to the other broken parts that we all save, the busted rods, broken valves, we all have that one spot that we store our busted mechanical memories. Set him up there with those pieces. Because they are meaningless, he like those parts are now a trophy so to speak, of what not to do next time. Let us hope this new to you transmission led a life of the retired gentleman who takes things nice and easy, now rested and ready to give it it's all for the new home will be a happy one.
I do appreciate you sharing your feelings on this with all of us, I could feel the pain and frustration in your words. Now bottle that all up into a big dose of fuel additive and roll on through the winter ahead.

[Desoto61]

Man know exactly what you're going through, I think we've all been in that situation at least once, bouncing between stages of grief, trying to will the universe back to harmony and peace. I'm having similar situations with this new house. Worse everything else suffers because of it. You're so focused on this one thing that work and normal life stuff gets neglected which isn't healthy either. For technically oriented, logical thinkers like most of us gear-head are these types of seemingly illogical, emotionally charged moments we do not handle well (or at least I don't think I do).

Only advice I can give is take a breath, let the emotions work themselves out and clear your head before going forward, it's not what you want to hear, and it's not what you want to do, but technical work under emotional duress tends to cause more problems than it solves. It's every bit as OK to take a moment and be angry, upset, depressed, and tired, as it is to take a moment to be tired, hungry, or sick.

Now if only I would take my own advice ;-P

[Alxj64]

Well, I put more miles on it. About 250 miles actually. The overdrive noise got perpetually worse, and then migrated into 1st and 2nd gear, then eventually into 3rd and Reverse also. Every gear except 4th (1:1) was making a noise. I kept driving it around some and made one long 130 mile round trip expedition with it. That made the noises all even louder. I then checked the fluid in the transmission and it looks like a fancy nail polish for my wife or a paint that someone with a '32 Ford Sedan would use; bright red with ALL of the glitter you can imagine. Uggh. I took it for a short Saturday morning 2 mile trip to a local hardware store and the truck down shifted into 2nd gear coming up to a stop light and subsequently locked the rear tires up. My brain went through a million scenarios in 0.01 seconds... a quick shift into Neutral resulted in no change so I thought, "dang, t-case must be locked up" but then suddenly the floor by my feet lets out this KAPOWWW! and the truck starts to roll again but with a grinding noise. Its short shifts into 1st gear though, but the shifter is in neutral... and I think.. thats weird. The truck doesn't want to seem to roll at the light despite the slight backward slope... I click it back into drive and the engine loads normally like the converter is moving fluid against a line pressure. Light changes and I start to go, not knowing what to expect. I've got my nose turned up trying to smell for transmission fluid or gear oil but nothing was evident. I was somewhat expecting anything to happen as I pulled forward; I even checked proximity to my fire extinguisher just in case fluid starts leaking and going to hot places, etc. Still no fluid smell and the truck moves forward normally but the transmission now sounds like a rock tumbler in first. Expecting a flare shift, or no shift, or maybe even no second gear at all I lightly let it gain rpm to where 2nd gear should be... it makes the shift normally but oh dear the crunching and grinding, and horrible scraping of metal on metal emanating from the transmission case. At this point I start laughing hysterically as I make the turn into my hardware store destination just beyond the stoplight where it all just went down. I crawl past a group of people looking funny at me; not sure if they are interested in the truck, wondering what I am laughing about, or if they could hear the noise as audibly as I and thus think the "Langoliers" are approaching and that they should run. I kick the truck into Neutral to let it roll to my parking spot and even rolling in N has a funny scraping sound. I shut the truck down, climb out in a haste and peer below expecting all sorts of carnage, but it all looks normal. I roll to my back and slid under the truck, but not before rocking it good to ensure it was in fact locked in park. I back hand touch the oil pan to find it warm but not hot. I scoot around and check the transfer case and it is barely above ambient temperature and same goes for the rear axle. I stare at the transfer case that I have lately been so suspecting of. It has no front driveshaft so I grab the front yoke and spin it somewhat hopeful of a noise to tell me that what I hear is not what I fear, and would rather it be a cheaper and easier task to replace NP205, than the Allison 1000... I knew better though and as expected the yoke spun smoothly in its place with the perfect amount of friction from the seal and good set of bearings. ****it...

I go in the hardware store to find they don't stock a simple drop in the tank chainsaw fuel filter; that is unless you buy a $21.00 kit. Par for the course of the current situation.

Leaving the parking lot was a lifelong emotional experience as I felt more daunting concern and empty stomach than any roller coaster I had ever been on. You know when you are at the top of the hill looking down, maybe even from the front seat and the rest of the train is holding you down the slope... yea, thats what it felt like. "Is this thing going to move... then if it moves, SHOULD I DRIVE IT?" I fought with the idea in my head but my heart had taken control. I was out of body watching my emotions run the show and the "lets just see what happens, you know its broke, come on and get this home" was all that was going on. Truck starts normal and away I go. 1st gear was loud but not unbearable... but that 2nd gear, ohh man... Just terrible. I pull back out into traffic and start to sneak my way home. The truck is now approaching the rpm range and load for third gear but its not shifting. "Uh oh"... But just as I grab the four way flasher lever it snags 3rd gear and its a touch quieter but still growling and grinding... I think, err, feel that I can get it home this way. I am starting to get up some fair speed for the route I am on and not much or any traffic around me... "Lets go to 4th I think". I step into it some more and it quickly and smoothly drops into 4th, and the roar and grind stop but are replaced with a driveshaft speed hard and loud tapping as if something inside the transmission is chipping its way out with a pneumatic hammer. I lightly cruise along in a safe speed and load as to not force any other gear shifts until I reach my few turns into my neighborhood. I anticipate the 4th to 3rd downshift and the unknown noises that may be happening. I also expect at anytime to experience the wonderful locked rear tire slide and drive appropriately to compensate for such an event. It shifts to 3rd and roars and growls almost deafeningly. "Well, that got worse in only 2 miles" I said aloud... to myself, but I couldn't even hear myself say it other than the muffled hum of my voice in my own head which made me simply chuckle at the gravity of the situation. Here comes 2nd... and BAM, it slams into 2nd and gives a good hard tire bark and somehow the noise is even louder yet. I creep the truck along until I can find a few spots to see what Neutral will give me hoping the truck will roll along quietly. Negative. Neutral is simply a dragging metal sound like noisy brakes as if you were to lightly load the drum parking brake hanging off the back of the 205... I even lightly bump the brake handle to make sure I hadn't subconsciously engaged it during my trip. Only a few blocks to go until I was home. Noise noise noise... Roaring and crunching, grinding and tapping. I was waiting for the ultimate failure as the closer I got to home the louder and more aggressive the sounds were becoming. I get the truck up into the driveway and around the side of the house to in front of my garage. Shift into Neutral but the transmission stays in 2nd and standing on the brakes I go. Never shifted to first even. The brakes have plenty to stop it but I also just key it off and the truck coughs to a rolling drivetrain locked up stop. I let it sit for a second and I ponder the events. I shake my head, check the surroundings and again look at my fire extinguisher... maybe I want it to catch on fire at this point... Not really, but sinister thoughts flood my frustrated mind and tease my heart as if it would be some narcissistic solution . I decide to re-start it expecting to stand on the brakes but it sits and idles in Neutral. I test a forward gear and it bumps into first just fine. I bump back into reverse, it loads and wants to move. I let it move some... CRUNCH CRUNCH CRUNCH... "Okay lets stop there."

I get out of the truck, shut the door lightly and let out a sigh. I sniff for smoke, fluid, or anything of concern before walking away... nothing. I go in the house and sit down for a minute. I know what I need to do but I don't want to; the transmission needs to come back out again. The worst part is I still had to tell my wife that the thousands of dollars, and many nights of work are lost and were fruitless, the truck is broken and as is my heart.

I start to contact my rebuilder, the guy who said "That transmission is fine, it has to be the transfer case"... His response was. "I assure you that nothing appeared wrong with a bearing or planetary gear when I was in there, so whatever happened must be something you've done to it, good luck". And now he doesn't respond to messages or calls. Lovely. Thats what I get for it being a "good deal" through a "friend of a friend".

So... Currently I have scrounged my pennies and found a used Duramax transmission to try and swap into the truck. Its gross, its used, and has unknown origins, but it was cheap and will be a testing tool to see just what is going on here. If it doesn't work at all, or works fine, or has similar issues, I'll at least have a direction to go. I am, 10,000% frustrated at this point though. I wanted to stab the guy on another forum that said "It wouldn't be fair to the rest of us for you to get away with a project like this without having some sort of epic problem or failure"... OOOOOooo... I'ma come through this computer screen boy!


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[Matthew Welcher PWA]

This reminds me of a noise I was once chasing in a build, I couldn't find it. It only made the most annoying sound while driving. I had a friend that was of a slighter build than myself, he rode in the truck with his feet hanging out the window on the passenger side while I drove down the highway. It ended up being a loose bracket under the dash that held the fuse block. I wish I could have taken a photo... That would have been to dangerous.

[Alxj64]

Thanks guys. I think the worst part about having to continue to chase these problems is that it prevents me from working on the things I need to do next, like build the seat frames, and button up the interior with windows and things. My wife is over it all too. When I told her it was still making the noise, I think she was more physically upset than I was because it has been hours and hours of time. I am trying to see the silver lining in this, as Damien mentioned, that the transmission did in fact need work, and the converter bearings were bad so it would have been a problem further down the road. The shift kits, and stall speed on the converter do make the truck drive very nice and the shifts are nearly seamless. The new steering box is a good bit heavier and drives more like what you would expect a heavier truck to drive like; the steering makes it feel like the truck gained about a ton of weight just because now it takes two hands to turn and feed the wheel vs before it was literally like driving a piece of heavy equipment with a one finger turning power... but with minimal feedback.

I am grabbing one of those remote ear noise things. I think they are called a Steelman stethoscope. I'll hook that up to various parts and drive around to see if I can isolate the exact source of the noise.

If it IS the transfer case bearings, then I actually have a whole spare identical case. It appears fairly unused, and seems tighter than the case I have. The one I rebuilt felt worn out anyways and I even had the mental thought when it went back together that "this thing might make noise"... Actually, we rebuilt two at once but somehow the other guy ended up with the nicer one installed in a mud truck. Ohh well. Whenever I find these things for a deal I buy them.

My fear is that it has something to do with my driveline angles... but everything is phased perfectly, the joints are all new. Etc. Its not a "vibration". I know what a driveshaft vibration feels like, its gear noise or bearing noise as its a "metal roller roar".

I guess I'll know more after driving it with the stethoscope on it. I am also going to rig up my go-pro on the frame rails and look to see if the transfercase or transmission are moving in the mounts or anything.

[Desoto61]

This is why fixing cars as a hobby is a good thing for me at least. There are plenty of times I've wanted to take a sledge to the car and then light it on fire. Take a break, work on something else for a bit, and let the frustration pass. W.A's right, let the problem stew in the back of your head for a bit and ideas will come. Everything you did to the trans needed to be done anyway from the looks of the stuff you posted here and elsewhere. You've eliminated any weak links in the trans now before they surfaced while towing your camper, or on a trail, or hours from home, and all before you have a nice clean interior and shiny paint to damage.

I think we also tend to forget that we are essentially in the prototype stage perpetually, you've basically built a custom truck around an existing body. If you managed to get it all perfect the first time out you'd be the greatest engineer ever. There are reasons it takes years for a manufacturer to bring a new vehicle to market, and even they end up making changes and improvements throughout the model run, and they have billions of dollars and all the cool toys. This is HARD, and you're not taking the easy way out of anything!

Worked at a shop in college and the head mechanic used to complain that any mechanic can replace parts, few were diagnosticians. Knowing what to replace is always often the hard part. You're definitely smart enough to figure this out, just need to let the emotions pass and let that logic machine take over again before you throw more parts at it.

Access to a dyno would be ideal, you would be able "drive" it while more easily checking areas for noise since it sounds like the noise only happens with some sort of load on the drive train. Some ides that pop to mind are what about the rear gear-train? It's in the right location for the noise, and NVH on these motors was always a secondary consideration. What does one sound like under load normally? Your front axle is supposed to be disengaged, but it's also super custom, could anything up there be an issue? Those lock-outs not quite locked out?

[W_A_Watson_II]

Oh crap man, Don't give up, I know it can be frustrating, but hang in there!

See who you can find close to you to ride shotgun with some hoses/tubes at critical locations and let them listen for the noise to help pinpoint the culprit.

Set back and relax it will be found and you will triumph!

[Alxj64]

Drove the truck today for the first time in 2 months... So upset I feel like throwing up. The terrible roaring noise, remains.. unchanged. Despite thousands of dollars, days and nights of labor... its still horrid. I was so upset today when I hit the highway after doing so break in driving that when I finally got it up to speed I was disgusted and just stayed in the throttle.. emotions and such. I let out of it at 82 mph. Truck drove stable and smooth the whole time. Nobody was around me. EGT was cranking 1200F but holding. I didn't care though... at that point it would have been a favor to just all of it let go... justify the sale and irradicate the perpetual frustration this thing has become.

Maybe its the transfer case, doubtful, as the 205 has a fresh rebuild and in 2wd is a straight through power divider. Noise is non existent under coast, but it does come back and differently audible during deceleration. I really really really don't think its the rear axle because as mentioned the sound is super audible at the bell housing. I kinda want to give up. Who wants a Carryall with a driveline noise that will make you deaf?

[Alxj64]

Transmission is back in. New steering box is installed. I am waiting on some hydraulic fittings for doing the sight tube for the Allison and also had to order slightly different size adapter fittings for the PS box as it was a later model unit. AGR built this one up for me with a double bearing in the output shaft, custom spool valve, secondary seal set, and full rebuild and hone.

While I am waiting on my fittings I am going to redo a little of the front floor to get things sealed up better. HOPING to have this thing on the road this weekend. They are calling for rain Friday through Sunday morning but fingers crossed for a break in it so that maybe I can get a few test runs in. The Allison computer will have to re-learn all of its shift pressures because of having a new torque converter, shift kits, valve kits, clutches, etc.

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[Alxj64]

Transmission is almost done being rebuilt according to the guy doing the work. It is supposed to be run on the transmission Dyno on Saturday morning so I am told.

In the meantime I started building my other seats and such that way I can finally layout my seat keys. My rear seats aren't exact replicas but they are close. I changed the base mount and adjusted some other features but to the untrained eye, nobody will notice and if they care... its their problem. The front seat, I built to look stock but I made the seatback taller than stock just to help for comfort and support. So the passenger's seat I wanted to keep the back the same height. Well, because it is so tall, it would hit the dash and floor when going to roll and tumble forward to let people get into the back; its always some weird detail to work around. So, that means I am making the seat stand up straight instead.

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[Alxj64]

No, no known time frame. The guy that is working on it for me, is doing it as a favor / on the side through an arrangement with his boss, etc etc. The company he works for likes the project and are interested in having me show it off with / for them, and evidently through other connections in the area they know about me having a reputation of being a "good guy" so they are willing to help knowing that I'm not a deep pocket shop like the Fantomworks guy up the road. Also, (long chain of relation) my wife's best friend, her husband's older brother, is one of the top-notch traveling mechanics for the same shop; I'm talking they fly him all over the world to look at million dollar boats, generators, and other special equipment.

In regards to the problems, the noise was 100% the converter as it was full of metal and the bearing was obviously bad based on how much the converter was wobbling around after we removed it. Also, the C3 clutch set appears to have been slipping some and has some hot spots, this is believed to be due to the original application being a delivery truck, and the C3 clutches are only lubricated when engaged. I don't have the original TCM so I can't pull any old codes to see that the lifecycle in the various gear ranges were or if it was throwing any codes ahead of time. I am having new frictions and seals put in the transmission, a new converter is already in hand for it (went with a nice performance one) and this thing should be good to go for a long long time... knock on wood.

[Matthew Welcher PWA]

What kind of a time frame are you looking at until you get the transmission returned to you, also any word on additional problems or damage with the transmission?

[Alxj64]

Matt,
I had a co worker loan me an engine lift that is assembled in pieces; this way I could assemble the hoist in and around the truck, reach through the door, and lower the transmission using the hoist and some other straps to setup a "balance" sling since I couldn't grab it at its dead CoG. Worked pretty well, nobody died, and I literally did it all on my own. Getting it installed might be a whole different story though. The torque converter appears TOTALLY trashed, so hoping thats the only problem. Its getting a shift kit, valve kit, C2 clutch upgrades, and a billet torque converter. Big ol transmission should be fairly bomb proof at that point. I'm adding a trans temp warning light to my center console as well as an OD off switch as thats something that I found how to wire up because the transmission builder let me dig through his manuals when he picked up the transmission last night.