Town Wagon Diesel?

[JimmieD]

Sorry if this is confusing, but I'm confused [again].

I have a Town Wagon and WAS going to install a torque built 360, A-518 non-lockup, 4.1 geared Dana 60, 70 D-200 front axle, maybe converted to disc brakes. I have quite a bit already invested in parts for the 360, but haven't started installing it or the A-518 yet. This truck is for traveling with aprrox. 25 ft. trailer, a heavy load of equipment, maybe 13+K total load.

Elsewhere it was suggested that I use a 4BT Diesel. From what I hear it is a low powered engine compared to a 360? That's quite a load to be pulling continuously so I need real torque. The last 360 with 3.23 gears and NP435 just did the job but could have used more torque.

Opinions on what engine swap is best for mileage and lowered fuel costs, that will still get the job done in Town Wagon? Mileage, durability, power, in that order, but able to do the job.

JimmieD

[MoparNorm]

Depending upon which 360 motor you have the ratings (for a Magnum) are around 245 HP @ 4,000* rpm and 335 lbs of torque@ 3200*.
The 4bt also has several variants, but most of the FedEx trucks were 110 HP and 305 lb. ft. of torque, rated for up to 15,000 GVW. The mileage will be at least 50-75% better than the 360 and it will run on P100 oil.

You could shoe horn a 12 valve 6bt into the Townie, the frame is basically the same as the Sweptline, but the sheet metal will be a tad narrower than the Sweptline that Terry has with his D200 Cummins, you might ask him for photos to see how tight a fit it is. You might even ask Charles here as he swaps the 4 bt's into M37's. The 6bt 12 valve is rated at 160 HP and 400 lb. ft.

*So you lose hp with a diesel (hp in a truck is basically unuseable anyway) and you'll hold your own in the torque department since the torque in the 4bt is maxed from about 1500 rpm on...the 360 won't make that much torque until 3,000 rpm, 3,000 rpm is something that the Townie may never see??

MN

[JimmieD]

Depending upon which 360 motor you have the ratings (for a Magnum) are around 245 HP @ 4,000* rpm and 335 lbs of torque@ 3200*.
The 4bt also has several variants, but most of the FedEx trucks were 110 HP and 305 lb. ft. of torque, rated for up to 15,000 GVW. The mileage will be at least 50-75% better than the 360 and it will run on P100 oil.
You could shoe horn a 12 valve 6bt into the Townie, the frame is basically the same as the Sweptline, but the sheet metal will be a tad narrower than the Sweptline that Terry has with his D200 Cummins, you might ask him for photos to see how tight a fit it is. You might even ask Charles here as he swaps the 4 bt's into M37's. The 6bt 12 valve is rated at 160 HP and 400 lb. ft.
*So you lose hp with a diesel (hp in a truck is basically unuseable anyway) and you'll hold your own in the torque department since the torque in the 4bt is maxed from about 1500 rpm on...the 360 won't make that much torque until 3,000 rpm, 3,000 rpm is something that the Townie may never see??
MN

Seems like 305 ft. lbs of torque would be enough. I got used to laboring along with the last combination of 360-NP435-3.23 gears and often the trans would leave me hanging in that grey area between ratios on a long hill. 3rd was too high at 2.25:1, 2nd too low 1.25:1. That A-518 with its torque converter might help with some of that?

Mileage wise: the 4BT could get 25mpg @ 15,000 GVW?

Does anyone know about bolting up the A-518 from a 360 SB to the 4BT?

How about replacement parts cost on a 4BT and what problem areas they have? Sure would eliminate those pesky electrical problems that come up, once and for all! That's another cost consideration.

[Ron in Indiana]

Jimmie, go over to the PowerWagon forum and read about the 4bt bread trucks some of the guys are picking up for cheap. Also you need to talk to Paul (in NY) Mierop, he has a 4bta in a 41 Carryall and is doing one in an M37. He's a super nice guy and will offer answers to all your questions. He makes a excellent maple syrup too. Tell him I sent you, we know each other.

[Gordon Maney]

Depending upon which 360 motor you have the ratings (for a Magnum) are around 245 HP @ 4,000* rpm and 335 lbs of torque@ 3200*.
The 4bt also has several variants, but most of the FedEx trucks were 110 HP and 305 lb. ft. of torque, rated for up to 15,000 GVW. The mileage will be at least 50-75% better than the 360 and it will run on P100 oil.

You could shoe horn a 12 valve 6bt into the Townie, the frame is basically the same as the Sweptline, but the sheet metal will be a tad narrower than the Sweptline that Terry has with his D200 Cummins, you might ask him for photos to see how tight a fit it is. You might even ask Charles here as he swaps the 4 bt's into M37's. The 6bt 12 valve is rated at 160 HP and 400 lb. ft.

*So you lose hp with a diesel (hp in a truck is basically unuseable anyway) and you'll hold your own in the torque department since the torque in the 4bt is maxed from about 1500 rpm on...the 360 won't make that much torque until 3,000 rpm, 3,000 rpm is something that the Townie may never see??

MN

I did a Google search on P100 oil and found nothing. What is it?

Also, considering that ball joint life, or lack of, in my 2001 Ram speaks of the weight of a 6BT, don't you think that engine would be a bit heavy for the Town Wagon front axle?

[MoparNorm]

Jimmie, go over to the PowerWagon forum and read about the 4bt bread trucks some of the guys are picking up for cheap. Also you need to talk to Paul (in NY) Mierop, he has a 4bta in a 41 Carryall and is doing one in an M37. He's a super nice guy and will offer answers to all your questions. He makes a excellent maple syrup too. Tell him I sent you, we know each other.

NO! Tell him I sent you...ha!ha!
Paul has converted 2, 4bt's and he says that he gets 29.9999 in his Carryall with 4.89 gears so you should be just fine! In fact the 435 would be a better bet for holding up behind that 4 bt as it makes GOBS of torque off idle, Paul will know a lot about which tranny/bell to convert over too...
Then come BACK HERE and post the results because Paul hasn't been able to figure out how to post here....ha!ha!


MN

[MoparNorm]

I did a Google search on P100 oil and found nothing. What is it?

Gordon! Here is the Link for P100!
http://www.greasel.com/
Yes real heavy but I didn't know if the 4 bt would meet his needs, apparently it does. FYI, there are several 6bt's in Sweptlines and they have a very similar frame and axle to the Townies, it seems to work great, but a tight fit!
MN

[JimmieD]

You guys! I KNEW I could count on you ha haha!

Thanks, Ron, will do. Already set up for the next auction....and will contact Paul who has always impressed me as a nice fella!

Gordon, RE: Springs etc. I have a 70 D-200 front axle [disc brakes may be possible] that's going in, with some new heavy duty springs from Eaton Spring. Ha ha, if I tried to use my tired stock springs I'd be signing 'Lowrider JimmieD', poor old thing. The truck...

Norm, RE: Tranny, hummmmmm...just gave up a Ford Toploader 4-speed out of a 427 Cobra, hope I don't regret it! I can get it back if needs be. I have a good NP435 [I'd do synchros in it] and hydro bell, and an A-518 HD Non-Lockup. These were put behind 6BT Cummins Turbo, so might do the job. I know the A-518 came behind 360's 'cause I have one, and they came behind Cummins 6BT, so maybe a bolt up to a 4BT? I'll ask Paul. I may have found a 5 speed, too, as there's a 60's D400-500 or so up here with a beautiful Rockwell single speed rear. That tells me that the gearbox must be a 5 speed, or there's an auxiliary in there with it?

Might just be able to use whatever tranny comes in the bread van? Have to see what I end up with.

Looked over on 'Dodge Truck Resource Forums' which is a diesel forum and guys were talking about 300 hp/500 ft. lbs. torque being dumb easy with a 4BT! Looking good....

[MoparNorm]

Many of the Bread Vans are gmc's and have TH400's
MN

[Gordon Maney]

What do UPS trucks have for engines?

[JimmieD]

Well, I e-mailed this fellow 'Paul in NY'. Wow! I was pretty amazed. His reply was that being it was Mopar Norm and Ron from Indiana that referred me, to GET LOST!! Boys, what did you ever DO TO HIM!?? Something about the FBI and Homeland Security, whooee, gave me the shivers and I'm still shakin'!

Yipes!

JimmieD

[Ron in Indiana]

Now Jimmie I could believe that about Mopar Norm what with him being from the LEFT coast and all, oh yeah you're from the same coast LOL. Paul and I are tight so that story doesn't fly here, besides Paul's too nice a guy not to pass on his wealth of knowledge about 4BT's. So are you going for it?

[JimmieD]

Only got a minute, Ron, 'cause I think I hear sirens coming this way...

Am I going to do it? I'm COMMITTED! Soon as they let me out I'll start on it.

Just wrote up an ad today to sell my '75 Dart Sport and a whole bunch of the parts I was going to use in the Townie. Man, that's going to be one bad-to-the-bone Dart! From here on out it's Cummins or nothin'!!!

JimmieD