75 Dodge D200 Club Cab Cummins swap project

[rcts]

I purchased a 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab that spent 30 years in a shop, its like brand new condition as well as the camper that matches the purchase date. My plan is to put a Cummins engine in this truck camper setup, Yesterday I purchased my donor 1992 D250 club cab 2wd. See pictures. As you know there is not much info on this era truck other than this forum and web site of yours, your site is the best one on the net for the 70’s trucks.

I want the 75 D200 for lugging the heavy camper as well to pull my companies car trailer into car shows, then I can leave the truck in the show as well, hee hee.
My company is in Calgary Alberta Canada, we are a race car shop, called RCTS CANADA R&D INC.

http://www.monsterhorsepower.com

Reg Riemer 403-620-5969

Any comments or experience would be great.

http://web.mac.com/rctscanadainc/iWe...e_Cummins.html

Thanks in advance

Reg

[JimmieD]

Wow, what an awesome project! The 1st Gens are the best and stuffing one in your beautiful new truck sounds great!

I'm doing a 4BT swap but Mike Mc is doing a 6BTA and has plenty of info. Some problems can come up regarding cooling and the aftercooler but they are solvable. That early engine with the Bosch VE pump is so easy to tweak up it's amazing. A little fiddling with the aneroid adjustment [power screw] and some fatter injectors and a bigger air filter can do wonders! Still leaves you with a solid and reliable daily driver, too. Also it doesn't have all the computer stuff and other complications: just plain old CUMMINS POWER!

If you're going to run an automatic the word is that the torque converter really should be upgraded, especially for towing. Run the biggest tranny cooler you can get your hands on also. The B&M 70264 is worth looking at. Post lots of pics here as you go and let us know how it's going on it?

[Went to your excellent webpages AFTER replying to your post. I thought that name sounded familiar ha haha! I surmise that you probably have the capabilities to make that Cummins growl very loudly indeed. Congratulations, again!]

JimmieD

[rcts]

75 Dodge D200 Cummings swap

Thanks for all the info, I looked at quite a few trucks before I started looking for the donor truck. Both trucks are 1 ton clubcabs 2wd automatics, PS no AC. The 92 is intercooled as well, with factory upgraded trans and engine cooler, intercooler, it also has cruise control on the wheel. I may move this to some place on the dash if I can find a hiding spot as I'm not going to use the 92 column I'm leaving the classic one in the cab.

I have looked at both trucks on the lift side by side and the frames and such look almost identical, in fact the 75 looks thicker in some places as well they are both boxed and such, very strong. Also my 75 has no AC or any other accessories other than power steering, this will help the weight, I shouuld be able to use the front springs from the 1st gen as well.

Motor mounts look to be identical place and both are the same structure so it should go ok, I'm planning on dropping the complete engine trans and diff into the 75. I will have to use the 1 gen's rear trans mount and move it to where it sits on the frame in the newer truck as the 360 v8 auto is shorter by about 14 inch's.

The member that talked about the rad is correct, the hood line along the ridge under the Rams head in the newer truck is higher than the 75 by about an inch and a half. My 75 hood is flat and has low spots near the centre like the old Mopar’S of the 60's. The rad will take some working out, the intercooler looks fine and will clear all the bits other than the hood release support, I will have to use the 92 one as its flatter to make room for the intercooler. A 2 inch body lift would solve the rad clearance issue so I can run the stock hood as I won't do the swap if I can run the stock body. Do you know of any small body lift kits for the 1st Gen's? the lift may be also nessesary if I have any trans tunnel clearance issues, but so far the tunnel looks ok. The shape is different for the 92 than mine but I think this was because Dodge set up the floor in all of them for the manual trans.

Wheel base is exact as is the fuel cell location and mounting is exact. Drive shaft and other parts, power steering and such are all the exact same.

I need to find a wire diagram for the 92 as well, I have a nice one for the 75 from

http://www.classiccarwiring.com/

It was inexpensive and they delivered very fast.

If you have any text on the tested performance upgrades for this I would want to do this stuff. I'm interested in great economy as well. The Cummins I have here seems like it has the rotary pump, I checked on the vin number with dodge and they said the pump was upgraded on warranty back in 1995.

I have a ton more questions for you if you don't mind!

•When they change injectors on these are the cranking up boost pressure? •What boost pressure do these engines run at stock?
•Can I get an aftermarket Tach for this engine?

Reg Riemer

Thanks in advance for all your comments.

[JimmieD]

Hi Reg!

I'll have to search out some info on details of upgraded VP rotary pump but I know it has higher output at higher pressures, and it is apparently lubricated, where the VE piston pump gets all lube from the fuel. The VP has a fuel plate which can be fairly easily modified [ground] to a new profile for increased fuel delivery and the aneroid [power screw] can be adjusted for more fuel. I think I have fuel plate profiles I can e-mail you. They also respond well to a high capacity electric fuel pump like Glacier's stuff or Walbro etc. Holley Blue can't cut it regardless of what some say.

The VP aneroid adjustment makes HUGE differences but you have to use care in the process. It must be done with turbo intake tube disconnected and with a small piece of plywood handy. If you go too far then start it you can get diesel 'Runaway' as the engine revs to the max or beyond and can't be shut off! Slap the plywood over the intake and it stalls it right out. If you use your hand instead of plywood you will be referred to as 'Lefty' from that point on as it will suck you in up to the elbow..... Regardless of dire implications this is an easy and safe process and results in far more power with little impact on fuel economy.

This pump's timing can be advanced also, which brings on the injection event earlier in the stroke. Result is much like advancing ignition timing on a gasser and with the same limitations, just a little does wonders, like 1/16" to 1/8" for good power and economy. Look at where the pump mounts to timing case on driver side and you'll see three bolts. One requires a wrench bent in an 'S' to access. Loosening these and using something to pry pump towards block is the trick. You'll see a hash mark on timing gear case and one on pump. Because yours has been upgraded they may not currently line up. Regardless, you advance in reference to this, as in 1/16" increase, 1/8" etc. Just a smidgeon as 1/16" can make a large difference. Don't go too far all at once.

Diesels want MORE FUEL. More fuel causes increases in EGT's [Exhaust Gas Temperature] which kills you for towing. One of the most important things of all to do is install a pyrometer of good quality to monitor EGT's when towing or running it hard up against the governor. The increase in fuel causes increased EGT's but increase in turbo boost/volume pulls it back down. I look at it as a cup of coffee: add more fuel [coffee] = hotter, blowing on it cools it off! There are much more efficient compressor and turbo housings you can install. HTT Stage III or Stage IV with the right sized housings give good results. Also the Holset HX35 or HX40 turbos may be used in lieu of the HW1C that you probably now have for a great improvement in turbo output and effect. This improves power and controls EGT's better.

Water/meth injection is a viable option. It injects metered amounts of water and methanol through sparay nozzle[s] into intake mixture after the turbo outlet. Back to the cup of coffee, adding cold water cools it off, adding methanol warms it up same as more coffee fuel. Meth increases cetane rating which makes up for the water quenching the combustion chamber fire. Nice thing is you can increase power with methanol and still keep up with cooling via the water and gain an overall decrease of several hundred degrees cooler EGT's. 50/50 mix is common, or 60/40 water to methanol. This allows you to turn up the fuel screw at aneroid and use a modified fuel plate for increased power without melting pistons and scattering parts all over the landscape.

Dodge/Cummins attempted to address issues with the diesel's torque-devouring stock A-518 and A-618 T/Q's. The improved one is just that but regardless it would be good to put in something even tougher to handle the applied torque when towing. Several shops have heavy duty torque converters.

Just a little fiddling and twisting, tweaking stock stuff can help a lot and the only limit on major upgrade$ is $$$ ha haha

[JimmieD]

Forgot something IMPORTANT, Reg: the infamous Killer Dowel Pin. On the front of the engine sits the timing gear case. Removing the belts, pulleys, tensioner and cover [loosen pulley bolts before removing belt tensioner or belt] reveals the timing gear. Looking straight on at about 10 o'clock on left of upper section you will see a dowel pin just to the upper left of a 10 mm screw. This is close to the base of the vee made by upper edges of timing cover. The 10mm screw may be used as the hold down for a tab to prevent this dowel pin from falling out and into timing gears! I have a picture I can process and post of my dowel pin repair.

There are several bolts that retain timing gear case and oil pump to engine block. I was doing the KDP repair and thought of a caution I'd heard regarding the bolts that hold the case and pump to engine block. Sure enough when I checked the bolts 1 was less than finger tight, 2 were too loose and 4 at oil pump were okay but not tightly torqued. So, remove all, clean bolts and holes with carb cleaner, Loctite and then properly torque.

These are a major disaster waiting to happen!

[rcts]

Thanks for all the help on my project,

I will do the bolt checks when I do the engine service stuff next week, if you find the pictures you can email them to my shop email address.

rcts@shaw.ca

Thanks JimmieD

Reg

[rcts]

I have updated the cummins swap project site with new stuff

FYI

I have updated the pictures site with more photos, when we start putting it together it will all be at this link. I have also added links to your great site as well guys.

http://web.mac.com/rctscanadainc/iWe...e_Cummins.html

I'm hoping that our shop will catch up around Christmas time and we can get the wrenching started.

Thanks for all you help guys.

Reg

[Mike Mc]

Leave it alone, she runs good enough.

rcts, here is a link on the KDP. http://www.dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/Dowel_Pin/tab.htmI checked the pin on my '93 and it was tight. I tried to get it to move but it was stuck. So I put the cover back on and left it alone.I would also take this opportunity to change the front and rear main seal. The rear seal is known to spin in the housing. My rear seal was loose.The Cummins makes plenty of power. So just leave her alone if you want the best economy. When ever a hope up kit is installed, I seem to get worse mileage. Because when you got more truck tearing up torque you seem to use it more. Also if you just use 1/4 throttle for your daily driving. Now you'll be dumping more fuel in at 1/4 then before.Good luck and looking forward to seeing some installation picks.

[rcts]

Thanks Mike, Yes I will check the pin when we have the front out of the truck. I intended to leave it stock as I do want the fuel economy, this is the reason for the swap in the first place, along with the cool factor of having a Cummins powered old dodge truck. What kink of engine puller lift do you guys use for these Cummins engines, mine will not do it at our auto engines shop. I have a heavy sky hook boom off my buildings steel rafters, this was installed back in the 60's when Canadian Pacific Railway owned my building, but I don’t know if I trust the boom at this weight.

That said. As of today, I'm thinking that the only way the nice stock 92 rad is going to fit under my 75 hood line is if I lift the body 2". So this said if I'm going to have to lift the body anyway I may as well just drop the 75 body on my 92 frame and be done with it, I would like to keep the classic frame but I don't want to move the engine trans and diff as well as undo all the body mounts. The frame swap is looking better all the time. This is not in stone yet but its looking better all the time. The thought of lifting that Cummins and auto trans is not something I want to think about either.

When the cab and box are off the 92 I could have the rusty stuff sand blasted and then paint it up again.

All I have to do then is pull the wiring out of the 92 to dissect out the the engine circuts and build an ad in sub harness, for the 75, for the ECU, temp sensors for glow heaters, auto trans lockup control button ecu integration. I want to keep the Cummins control panel in the truck, it works well and the truck starts and runs nicely, the circuits are simple and easy to move over. That is sort of what out shop specilizis in anyway, we do digital injection on gas race engines and street engines. The Cummins engine harness is small compared to these other systems we work with every day.

I want to mount the Cummins engine control light panel in the original 75 Dash, where the taco option used to be installed beside the radio.

What do you think about the frame swap, keep the classic or go with the 92, I would also have to rebuild the front end the steering box has some dead play, my 75 is tight like new, too bad.

Thanks for listening to my ranting and raving

Reg

[Mike Mc]

No matter which way you go it's going to be tough!!!!

The problem with putting the older cabs on newer frames is the fire wall and fender wells. Tough to line up fender wells correctly. The old fire walls are not recessed back to allow room for the long Cummins. But either way my fire wall has to be modified.

If every thing is tight one the 75. I would stick with the original plan.

Wise man once said "the pain and suffering is quickly forgot when you rep the benefits of a quality product into the future."

Good luck and hurry so I can C how U did it!!!

[rcts]

I don't understand what's wrong with the fire wall?

Hello again, I don't see what your explaining with the fire wall, mine looks exactly like the 92 I have measured it all up and its the same, what am I missing in what you are telling me about the fire wall and fenders. Is the frame not the same in the front.

I have taken all the mesusurements, maybe in the 4x4 models something else is different, mine are both 2wd automatics.

Are you talking about clearance for the manual trans clearance?

Let me know if you have time.

Thanks in advance.

Reg

[rcts]

I'm back to putting the engine and driveline back in the mint 75 frame!

Thanks Mike, You do know that my CTD truck is 92, and my old one is a 75, I'm not doing a Sweptline like you?

I went out to the trucks in the shop tonight, I don't see the firewall issue but I take your word for it, However, I can see that the inner fenders don't look like the exact same curves, both use rubber splash boot to connect to the frame line. I had thought the body mounts would just line up as others have told me they would but I have swiched directions again, back to my original plan of putting the 92 driveline in the mint 75 frame and body. I will build a new rad and be done with it the right way.

If I have to tig in some supports for the frame I will do this, that said the truck is not an off road rig, its going to get highway only.

Thanks again.

Reg

[Mike Mc]

Rcts, sorry I didn't explain it better, but does the 75 and 92 have the same wheel base so the fenders will line up? They look to be the same in the pictures.

What is the measurement on the 75 and 92 from rad. support to firewall?

Does the 92 have the AC condenser and inter cooler in front of the radiator support or in the engine compartment?

[MoparNorm]

Does the '92 have an intercooler?
MN

[rcts]

Rad support to firewall are exact same dimensions.

I'm still leaning toward using the nice 75 frame now. MoparNorm said this is what he would do. Thanks Norm!

The wheel base is the same and the only thing I can see thats not the same is the distance from the fenders hoodline ridge to the inner part of the inner fender tin where the rubber splash gaurd attaches, this is 1" different, but about 8" of rubber is used to attached the liners inner edge to the frame, just as in the 75, I thought it would be a cake walk.

The 92 has intercoler, there is lots of room for this under the rad support, I made templates for this already.

Also the distance to the driveline hump is the exact same, this is why I was confused that the body would not fit the frame.

If you need the exact dimensions I have them at work. I think 42" was what was from the back of the support to the lower edge of the firewall.

Thanks guys.

Reg