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Bosch VE/Cummins 4BT fuel troubleshooting

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  • Bosch VE/Cummins 4BT fuel troubleshooting

    I got a crash course on Cummins 4BT fuel systems that use the Bosch VE Rotary injection pump. That's the most common on 4BT. This system uses a separate 'Lift Pump' to deliver fuel to the VE injection pump. Most common lift pump is the diaphragm type. You can find the diphragm pump at cheap prices by ordering one for an '89 Dodge 5.9L CTD [the Carter M73060] from your local auto parts at 1/2 to 1/3 of Cummins price.

    Fuel is pulled from tank by lift pump, and from there it enters fuel filter housing and courses through and then on to the VE injection pump. VE pressurizes and distributes fuel to injector lines and also has a return line to send leftover fuel back to tank. Diaphragm lift pump has a manual pumping lever on the bottom/side. This only works when the pump cam is not already depressed by camshaft eccentric so you often have to bump the starter a couple of times to hit the spot where it manually pumps fuel. If you can't bump starter the engine can be easily turned over with the alternator pulley nut or with the Cummins barring tool.

    Fuel comes from tank sender assembly where there are 3 lines connected: 1 pressurized, 1 return line and 1 tank vent. The barbed [has formed lip] line is pressure and return fitting probably doesn't have barb and may be copper. You will probably connect flexible fuel line at the pressure and return outlet/inlet at tank to your fuel hard lines. It MUST BE DIESEL RATED FUEL LINE! NAPA carries Diesel Rated fuel line but not everything they carry is such, so have them double check. The line must be the EXACT SIZE for the inlet or outlet tube from tank as air leaks are death to a diesel. Normal screw type clamps aren't good here so use Fuel Injection line clamps which allow higher clamping force without destroying hose.

    Fuel line goes from tank to diaphragm lift pump and on to the fuel filter head. Fuel filter is a spin-on cartridge and for a 4BT the Fleetguard FS1221 works well as it has large capacity and a water separator and drain, and I think Amsoil filters have the water drain also. There is a flat rubber gasket at top of filter which must be lubed at install, and filter is turned only 1/2 more turns after it first tightens, by hand, no wrench. The hard line from lift pump enters fuel filter housing through a 'banjo' fitting. This inlet fitting has a bleeder screw with 10mm head. Fuel goes through filter and out another banjo fitting hard line to front top of VE Rotary injection pump.

    The VE pump has a fuel shutoff solenoid at rear top of pump. It is the same solenoid as used on 85-89 VW Golf Diesel so you can find them for less than $30 online, instead of paying Cummins price of up to 3X that. This solenoid is connected to 12VDC ignition Run position, with a connector and 2nd wire going to the KSB Cold Start Timing Advance sender in engine block behind VE pump. The early 4BT uses the 'Wax Motor' KSB.

    Excess fuel after injection process is returned to tank through return line. It is just as important to have this line tightly sealed, no leaks, no obstructions as supply lines.

    The system is bled by moving manual pumping lever on diaphragm lift pump while cracking fittings. The first fitting to crack is the 10mm hexhead bleed at banjo fitting at fuel inlet to filter housing. Pump until clear diesel with no air bubbles comes out. The next fitting to bleed is the fuel inlet fitting at front of VE pump, but this is only rarely necessary. Hold bottom 17mm while cracking upper 14mm fitting. Now the primary fuel system is bled and engine may start normally. If not, for initial startup you connect a remote start switch to the starter solenoid and with truck in neutral, ignition off, crank the engine while cracking fuel injector 17mm nuts at cylinder head. Again you pump until clear fuel, no bubbles.

    The engine may start normally now once everything is tight and remote switch is disconnected. If not then it may be necessary to crack injector fittings while cranking engine with ignition 'ON'. You'll need a helper or else reconnect remote start and turn key on to open fuel solenoid. DANGER: The injectors pump at extremely high pressures, enough that it can inject diesel fuel through your skin! Put a rag over top of injectors when cracking open and expect a good mess. First crack 1 & 3, then 2 & 4 while cranking. It may start during bleeding of 1 & 3, and run rough, so tighten them and crack 2 & 4. This should finish bleeding and engine should smooth out. With engine running you can also very slightly crack the injectors again one by one and check for clear fuel, no bubbles, but be careful of that extreme high pressure.

    If engine still will not start or air cannot be bled from system check all your fuel line fittings and clamps. Over-tightening the fuel filter cartridge can cause air leaks also. To troubleshoot for leaks before lift pump remove your flexible line and replace with a temporay install of clear vinyl tubing to lift pump inlet. If this clear line shows bubbles before lift pump then air leaks are between tank and lift pump. If there's fuel to injector pump but not to injectors that indicates a bad fuel shutoff soenoid valve at back top of pump. Try jumpering from battery 12VDC for test purposes and R & R as needed. There is a manual spring-loaded shutdown lever to stop engine, located on driver's side toward bottom of VE pump.

  • #2
    Question. I didn't see a return line out of the injection system on 4BT so I just hooked up the feed line to the fuel pump and it runs well.
    Do you think a retun line is mandatory?

    Also aside from the fuel Start/stop solenoid what other soleniod or switch on the block do I have to hook up?
    Can you tell me what these are for thanks.
    Attached Files

    Comment


    • #3
      Well , I'm not sure that is a "VE" pump? Can't tell enough from the picture.

      The first pic. is the "KSB" solinoid. It's a Cold start timeing advance.
      It must be hooked up. There should be a sending unit in the head,usually around the rear middle with two connectors. One goes to the advance, the other from the ign.
      When started it advances the timeing to control blue smoke,as it warm's it moves back to normal.
      If you run with this unpluged it will destroy the engine.
      The 2'nd pic. looks to be the "Temp" guage sender.
      Fuel enter's the front top of pump,If it is a ve pump, The return is on the rear top of pump with a "banjo" bolt fitting. And Yes it needs to be hooked up,or you will blow the seals,and prbably won't run anyway.


      TGP
      WDX & Misc. Pics.
      http://www.t137.com/cpg/index.php?cat=10010
      "47" Dodge WDX WW
      "52" Dodge M-37 WW
      "54" Willys M38A1
      "65" Kaiser M35A1 WW
      "77" Chev. K-30 400T,205,4.56 "No-Spin"
      "84" Chev, K-30 Cummins 6-BTA 400,205,3.73Locker
      "86" Chev, M1028A2 (K30) 6.2,400.205,4.56 Locker
      "99" Dodge Durango "Limited Slip"
      "99" Dodge 3500 CTD 4x4"No-Spin"

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks for the reply here are more pics. So the KSB needs to pe connected along with, I'm assuming this other switch? And how do you wire them together?
        And you say the sender pictured next to the fuel filter is also a temp sender?
        Lastly what's the sender pictured next to the turbo?

        Thanks
        Attached Files

        Comment


        • #5
          That's the early style VE pump. As Tom said, the one part is the KSB, the cold start timing advance. The particular type pictured is a 'Wax Motor KSB'. It has a wax pellet inside and the solenoid at rear. When engine heats up the pellet melts and solenoid pushes a mechanism that returns injection timing to normal running condition/position. An engine can be run without it connected, in the advanced position, but you'll have the smoke that Tom mentions. It won't actually destroy the engine but some say that continual running in advanced position, disconnected, may put too much stress on VE pump which is doubtful. Main problem is smoke with it disconnected.

          In 1st picture that spring loaded lever just above KSB is the Manual Fuel Shutoff used if Fuel Shutoff Solenoid on top rear of VE pump [below Aneroid housing] fails. Some have blown their Fuel Shutoff Solenoid plunger tip so it won't stop fuel, so they run a mechanical choke cable to that lever for shutdown. Works fine. A single 12VDC wire goes to top of fuel shutoff solenid with a second wire tapped in going to KSB sender. Other side of sender connects wire to KSB.

          In the third picture I think that's the return line just below the temp sender that connects to KSB, with larger fuel supply line to VE pump just above. Return line connects at rear of VE pump on engine side below the aneroid housing. Aneroid is the aluminum piece on top with 4 screws that's domed and has a round indentation. That aneroid assembly controls fuel management. The fuel return line continues around back of fuel filter and is then connected to a fuel tank return line. You MUST HAVE THE RETURN LINE CONNECTED or you'll blow the pump and possibly blow the engine as Tom mentions.

          Second picture shows fuel filter and fuel inlet & outlet lines, temp sender, and possibly the stub end of fuel return line just above the sender. Fuel filter housing inlet is on right, outlet on left, with inlet line coming off of the Lift Pump, which is a diaphragm type fuel pump mounted on engine block. The 4BT Diaphragm Lift Pump is the same unit used on '89-'90 6BT Dodge CTD's.

          The fuel outlet line from fuel filter housing has a 10mm bolt in the center of the banjo fitting, shown in far upper left corner of third picture with inlet to the right and below it. That is the bleed point for air elimination from the entire system from tank, through lift pump, through filter and filter housing. As you can see the outlet line being above inlet line helps allow air bubbles to rise to outle bleed. The next normal bleed point is at each of the injectors, however the VE pump can be bled a bit more where the fuel outlet line connects at front of VE injection pump.

          Diaphragm lift pump is in 4th picture at lower middle towards rear of block. The 2 plugs in block forward of lift pump are pressurized oil circuit fittings. Just to the right behind the diaphragm lift pump is a hose nipple which is the crankcase breather. Hook a hose to that and let it drop below oil pan to release blowby.

          Last picture, opposite side of block, shows oil cooler housing at right with spin-on filter, round externally threaded block heater plug-in, and a red plastic cap over air intet to compressor side of turbo. Be absolutely sure to have an oil line running from oil cooler/filter housing to turbo housing.

          Comment


          • #6
            Is the return line a small tube?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Hammered Scout View Post
              Is the return line a small tube?
              Yes The small tube at the back is the return for the pump and injectors.
              WDX & Misc. Pics.
              http://www.t137.com/cpg/index.php?cat=10010
              "47" Dodge WDX WW
              "52" Dodge M-37 WW
              "54" Willys M38A1
              "65" Kaiser M35A1 WW
              "77" Chev. K-30 400T,205,4.56 "No-Spin"
              "84" Chev, K-30 Cummins 6-BTA 400,205,3.73Locker
              "86" Chev, M1028A2 (K30) 6.2,400.205,4.56 Locker
              "99" Dodge Durango "Limited Slip"
              "99" Dodge 3500 CTD 4x4"No-Spin"

              Comment


              • #8
                I was posting extra info because of the great pics you put up. They show several engine details very clearly for others who may come looking.

                In the 4th picture showing left side of engine you can see a freeze plug looking thing right in front of lift pump on side of block. That's the place for the return line from a bypass filter. An aluminum fitting with a large o-ring fits there when plug is knocked out, and is held in place by the 2 or 3 bolt holes provided in block. The two threaded plug fittings forward of lift pump on block are pressurized oil gallery feeds which can feed the bypass filter input.

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                • #9
                  You're delivering great info to go with pictures!
                  I found the return line;it was cut and pinched shut, no wonder it wasn't spewing everywhere. I'm in the process of running a retun line to the tank.
                  As for the KSB and the sender(green plastic w/ 2 wires) above it how do I wire it? Does it have keyed power like the Fuel solenoid(constant) while key on?
                  Thanks, Rick

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Yes, ignition 'Run' position of switch or whatever powers both the fuel shutoff solenoid and KSB sender. The sender then sends a signal to KSB as needed.
                    That is, hot lead into sender, and other sender lead out to KSB solenoid.

                    If you'll look up that bypass filter thread Charles Talbert offers some excellent tech info there. I'm the flunky, he's the Pro!

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                    • #11
                      Great Stuff!

                      I'm writing as fast as I er........ I mean print print print print

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                      • #12
                        Hey, great, I hope it helps ya buddy!

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