4BT's-Get them when you can!

[Warren Watt]

The bean counters who made the decision.............

to jump to gassers need to talk to the mechanics who maintain the fleets. I believe that their insight based on maintenance related occurrences would really be a telling thing. The longevitiy of the diesel vs the gasser would enter into it as well as the routine maintenance involved.
Of course, I know that those two departments are light years apart and probably don't communicate so it is not likely to happen. But, the bottom line is just that, so why can't they see those other costs??

[pybyr]

diesel pros and cons

here's my $0.03 on the diesel vs gas question

I'd _always_ wanted a cummins diesel... finally bought one in April '06. BEST vehicle I have ever owned. Zero manufacturing defects, and torque like it was going out of style; very respectable mileage for a vehicle of its size and mass. Come cold weather, though, with a commute of under 10 miles each way, it barely ever warmed up. Aside from the fact that this was uncomfortable, I figured it couldn't be good for the engine in the long run. Yes, I could've done the block heater/ paid through the nose for a jake brake to help it warm up, etc., but in the end I, with lots of regret, traded it (it did incur very little depreciation, confirming that diesels hold value well) for a little practical gas AWD car BUT the happy ending portion of the story is that the cheapness of my little practical daily driver car allowed me to recently buy my 1951 M-37-- so now I have a truck that is even more 100% real truck than my '06 Dodge Cummins was, and I don't even have to have a truck that makes any pretense of making a practical daily vehicle. My conclusion, for me-- diesels are great IF you don't live in a cold climate OR, even if you live in a cold climate, IF you really, really need the heavy hauling capability or will drive a LOT of miles and really, truly, unlike most of the American public, intend to keep that one vehicle for many years and many miles. I do look forward to the ongoing-ly-improved diesels that are reputed to be ready to come out in the coming few years in more and more different vehicles.

Trevor, in VT

[pybyr]

broken diesel heart...

PS to my last post, every time I see a Dodge Cummins on the road, I do practically feel like it's a reminder of an old love that slipped away. So it's not as if the appeal and benefits of a diesel is lost on me; just sort of like a situation like a wonderful ex who just wasn't cut out to be with me... Only a truck owner could think this way... proving that you can take the boy out of the truck but not the truck out of the boy (and thus, my new romance with my M-37)

[MoparNorm]

I've noticed that my Cummins is slow to warm up also, even in SoCal it takes about 3-4 miles before the heater or defroster start to work. I've had it in temps as cold as -18 and it was the howl of banshees when it fired up, but it still only took the 3-4 minutes to warm up. I wonder if that is common or if there are any fixes that the guys in MN and AK use to get heat into the cab earlier?
Seems kind of silly to use a manifold heater here, when it's only down to 50 degrees at night....

And, yes, I'd be driving a newer vehicle now, to replace my gasser, but I'm also waiting for the new diesels to come out. In CA. you can no longer get diesels as most small diesels are 45 states only because of the Gang of 5 (CA and 4 other leftist states that adopted CA emissions regulations). Time to move to America.

[Chris Olson]

diesel heat

In the winter you always have to use a winter front to block the radiator..
waaay up north (like in the alberta tar sands) the guys just don't ever shut the trucks off...

[IHWillys]

In the winter you always have to use a winter front to block the radiator...

I wondered for a long time why one needed to cover the rad when the thermostat should stay closed until the coolant temp is up. Then I finally owned a vehicle on which the need arose. I was very surprised to find the cycling thermo was allowing the coolant to 'overcool' while sequestered in the radiator with a closed thermostat. Ie, the thermo opens and the coolant that's been sitting in the radiator getting thoroughly cooled down flows into the hot engine and causes the thermo to close, leaving a new charge of hot coolant to sit in the radiator where it gets overcooled just to have the cycle happen again. I sat there with an idling engine(231 Buick in a CJ5) feeling the radiator warm up, cool off, warm up, cool off, etc. and it dawned on me...

Ken

[Charles Talbert]

Been working with diesels, both large & small for over 30 years. All are slow to warm on cold mornings/days. Many older trucks were equipped with thermostatically controlled radiator shutters operated by what is called a shutterstat. This instrument screws into the water jacket for temp sensing, controls an air operated cylinder to open & close the shutters. We had a number of Macks with the shutter systems. Now days the shutters are mostly gone, vinyl winter fronts have taken over where the shutters used to be. Either does the job of holding the temp even very well.

[Juan]

MoparNorm, Down here in Argentina in ´95 a mexican bread company (Bimbo) landed with a lot of fanfarre. They refuse to use our MB, Iveco´s Diesel delivery vans and Imported thousands of Grumman/Chevy P30 "bread vans" cause they said the bread van was kind of a trade mark for their company. The mistake that costed a couple of "counter beaners" (was that your term?) their job was, that they imported the trucks with the 350 v8/th400 powertrain. At those times the diesel costed usd 0.36 per liter and the gas was usd 1.50 per liter down here, that was expensive in dollars.
In one year all the vans were converted to CNG, they had a 100 mile range in CNG and a lot of reliability issues apeared, most of them operator related due to the fuel conversions. I have a CNG/Gas converted Chevy Malibu but it´s mine and I take good care on how to use it.
How about that as wise business decisions?

Now they are on Iveco´s.