PTO basic's?

[MasterYota]

Anyone have any tips or tricks for safe operation of the PTO winch on an M37? All my experiences have been with electric winches. Are there any operational "no-no's" I should be aware of?

I guess I'm asking for operational instructions...?

Thanks again!

Ray

[maineSS]

Probably the biggest difference is making sure you're out of harm's way if anything suddenly breaks. A PTO or hydraulic winch won't overheat and stall like an electric, they'll just lug down a little more, and a little more until- SNAP! ZING!- and if you're in the wrong spot, you'll be Just A Memory...

Another thing to watch is accidental engagement of the winch when the cable is still hooked to the bumper or crossbar between the guides. My winch had the crossbar bent into a V, and I had to straighten the guides with a rosebud torch. I've seen another winch with the same problem, so it seems to be an easy mistake to make.

[712edf]

Well I have a Braden Lu-2 on the front of my 78 W200. Honestly things work best if you have two people. It's annoying hopping in & out of the cab to start/stop the pulling while trying to watch the line & keep things from tangling up. Maybe M37's are set-up differently. I like to keep my cable spooled up nice and even. That don't happen if I'm sitting in the cab gunning the throttle if no one else is spooling it in evenly. Also my winch will pull more weight than my brakes will hold, or at least more than my tires can.

Bucky

[Paul Cook]

Operational instructions?

"I guess I'm asking for operational instructions...?"

Are you wanting the operational instructions from TM 9-8030, paragraph 55, that tells you which levers to push to make the cable go out and in, or are you wanting some general winching guidance as contained in FM 20-22, VEHICLE RECOVERY OPERATIONS. (My latest edition is July 1970.)

There are operational instructions listed on the web sites of various winch manufacturers.

You can SEARCH this Forum (and others). This is a well discussed topic.

Getting "hands on" with another knowledgeable person is also very helpful.

Let us know how we can help.

[MasterYota]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Searching this forum is out, as I don't have access to those privledges at the moment. I had the same feelings about two person operation as well. Thanks Paul for the resource information, now I have another piece of the puzzle to research.

My biggest question is what holds a load under tension when the winch isn't engaged and pulling? In other words, does the PTO winch have an automatic load holding brake similar to an electric winch? Or is the load/tension simply held through the mechanical conection to the engine clutch, and the line will go slack if the engine clutch is disengaged?

[712edf]

My biggest question is what holds a load under tension when the winch isn't engaged and pulling? In other words, does the PTO winch have an automatic load holding brake similar to an electric winch? Or is the load/tension simply held through the mechanical conection to the engine clutch, and the line will go slack if the engine clutch is disengaged?

The mechanical connection holds it, but pushing in on the clutch isn't going to let things come too unraveled. Probably due to the mechanical advantage built into the design to allow the engine to easily drive the winch and not the winch drive the engine. There's alot of frictional resistance in the drivetrain of a mechanical winch, but things are geared to the advantage of the engine, not the spool.

Bucky

[712edf]

Also (usually) forward transmission gears winch in...Reverse winchs out. At least on mine np205 driven braden.

Bucky

[MasterYota]

Also (usually) forward transmission gears winch in...Reverse winchs out. At least on mine np205 driven braden.

Bucky

Which gear in the trans do you find yourself using most often? Is it possible to "over-rev" a PTO? Ie, should the throttle remain at idle, or just above, or have you found it necessary to give it some juice to get things moving?

When all the conversions are done, mine will be a tcase driven unit as well. Does low range on the transfercase have any bearing on the operation of the PTO, or is it separately geared?

Thanks guys for all the help! Keep it comming!

[712edf]

Well you must understand on mine particular set-up the pto is run off of the t-case, which I shift into neutral to keep the vehicle stationary. My 4-speed 435 transmission gives me 4 speeds to choose from to winch in. If I'm just spooling in cable I might use 4th just to speed things up. This is with engine at fast idle. I might goose it time to time because I'm impatient. Also I have the hood up. This helps cool the engine a bit, plus if I were winching a load and had a line breakage the hood up might prevent something from going through the windshield. But that's just me.
The 435 is geared very low in 1st, so usually 2nd is the better choice for winching, just depends on the circumstances. Used to be vehicles with PTO's had a throttle lock to hold the engine at a faster than idle rpm. Again conditions dictate gear & rpm needed. MY engine is a 440. Its not stock. It is rather healthy! If I crank up the heat to much something is going to break maybe.
I do know that smaller engines with a PTO, particularly ford 8n tractors (and those like it) are meant to run at a higher rpm while in use, especially when engaging the PTO.

I'm just not familar enough with your drivetrain to give specific info on what would be best for you.

Bucky

[712edf]

To answer your last question. I don't thnk hi-lo has an effect on pto speed. Mine (NP205) is driven off of the input shaft.

Bucky

[MasterYota]

Sounds like we think and build along similar lines. My M37 will also be big block powered ('69 428CJ- warmed up a little) with a 435 as well. The only real difference is how the PTO is driven. I will be utilizing the unused front output on the stock ford tcase (drivers side output) to power the PTO. The rear output will power the stock NP200 down to my swapped in GM D60 and 14bolt.

This setup also lets me winch with the truck stationary, or driving the wheels at the same time, plus I can use the high/low range on the ford tcase to vary the line speed even more depending on the circumstances. I think I'll also hook the dash mounted throttle control up to the new setup as well. The rpm would remain more constant than my foot vibrating up and down. Good idea on the "hood up" practice - I can see the safety advantage already.

[712edf]

I imagine your PTO set-up will be stronger (durability) than mine, at least up to the actual winch itself. The front output of a t-case is built to handle more load than a PTO output on the side of a t-case (or transmission). I'm not familar with how much room is in a M37, but seems like you'll have that packed to the gills.

I'd like to rig up a MICO type brake lock on mine, but I'm still search for a manual brake master cylinder rod assembly.

[MasterYota]

The MICO lock is my book as well. I'll plumb it into the front lines and it'll accomplish two things: one, weight transfer when using the winch will move forward as the front end is pulled downward when winching someone else out. Two, the MICO will act as a park brake should I ever break the rear driveshaft. This will give me enough time to lock in the front hubs and set the tcase in 4hi to ensure the truck dosen't roll anywhere.

What rod assembly are you looking for? Is it the handle and linkage that activates the park drum on the back of the tcase?

I do imagine that the whole works will be rather tight under there, but the 428 is quite small, and the tcase outputs are on opposite sides of each other. The Ford case is also quite small, as its not an NP205, but a Dana 20.

I'll take lots of pictures once I get through the planning, and parts gathering stages...

[712edf]

What rod assembly are you looking for? Is it the handle and linkage that activates the park drum on the back of the tcase?

I have a 78 W200 that has power brakes. I desire to switch to manual brakes. On my particular set-up the rod that bolts to the brake pedal is an integral part of the vacuum booster. It does not come apart from the booster. I need a rod to connect the brake pedal to the master cylinder, along with the plate that bolts to the firewall.

bucky

[MasterYota]

I have a 78 W200 that has power brakes. I desire to switch to manual brakes. On my particular set-up the rod that bolts to the brake pedal is an integral part of the vacuum booster. It does not come apart from the booster. I need a rod to connect the brake pedal to the master cylinder, along with the plate that bolts to the firewall.

bucky

I have to ask the question:

Why on earth would you want to downgrade your brake system from power to manual?