no start

[Hines76]

Im new to this site and i've found lots of great info here.
Anyways i recently purchase a 1978 W200 (360/727/np205) but i havent been able to get any fire at the plugs. the key wont turn it over so i have been touching the brown wire coming from the starter to the stud on the relay. the cap, rotor, and pickup coil are clean and the ignition coil looks fairly new. to eliminate the possibility of a bad coil i put the one off of my 76 w100 on it, still nothin. i took the fusable links out, nothin.
the wiring is a little butchered but the only thing i have to check it with is a '75 service manual. some of the original wiring at the 4 plugs on the firewall doesnt match up with the manual but i thought it might be the difference in years. everything else seems ok. me and my friends dad have been trying to figure it out for a week and we're stuck. anybodys help would be greatly appreciated.

[pieter]

If you turn on the headlights, do they come on?
Reason being is there is a electrical connector box at the firewall (you will see a large wiring harness going to it. Shake this bunch of wires really good and see if it does anything.

I had a 74 that would do the same thing. I use to have a 1/4" piece of metal under the hood the jump the solenoid like you are doing.

You have the ballast resistor to check and the ECU or ECM, whichever you would like to call it. Has the oblong looking plug going into it. All of which you can borrow from your w100.

Have you had it running at all or did you buy it as is with not being able to run?

Do you know any history of the truck and the status prior to you purchasing it?

Are you getting spark at the coil? plugs?

Are you getting voltage to the "+" side of the coil?

If by chance the distributor was pulled, find top dead center and make sure the rotor is pointing to the #1 plug wire. Make sure the reluctor ring is under the rotor for the pick-up coil to read...

Fill us in and there will be more help.

Pieter

[712edf]

One thing to add concerning the key not working is the neutral safety switch on the 727.

[Hines76]

i knew the truck didnt run when i bought it but the price was too good to pass up. got it from a local guy who owns only dodge trucks. ive bought a couple parts trucks from him but this is the first complete one. he told me that he bought it to make a mud buggy for the fire department if they got a grant but they never did. he never tried to start it. i am assuming the guy before him messed with the wiring. i havent tried swapping the ecu or ballast resitor from the w100, and the parking lights come on but no headlights. im not getting spark at the plugs and im not sure how to check spark at the coil. i havent checked for voltage on the + side of the coil or the distributor. i will have to do all this tomorrow after work.

[Hines76]

the reluctor ring is there but has surface rust on it. how do i check the nuetral safety switch? and thanks guys for all the advice. i will let u know how it goes as soon as possible

[712edf]

the reluctor ring is there but has surface rust on it. how do i check the nuetral safety switch? and thanks guys for all the advice. i will let u know how it goes as soon as possible

What the neutral safety switch does is prohibit the starter from working in any gear but Park & Neutral. It does this by providing a ground for the circuit at the starter relay. Its located on the drivers side of the transmission just behind the shift lever. It has a wire connector going to it which contains three wires. The switch itself has three prongs. The switch also serves as a ground for the reverse (back-up) lights. I can't remember if the outer two prongs are for the starter relay/ inner prong is reverse lights...or inner prong is starter relay / outer two are reverse lights....

[712edf]

Anyways if you ground all three of the wires at the connector the reverse lights should come on(key on) and the starter should engage.....I think I'm remembering this correctly.

[pieter]

since you aren't getting headlights, that connector at the fire wall is corroded. Turn the lights on and have someone watch the headlight or unless you can see it in a reflection. This will at least start getting you in the right direction.

Since you don't know the full history of the truck - I'd double check and make sure the rotor does spin. Make sure TDC is correct and the rotor is at #1 cylinder.

The rusty reluctor ring - it depends on how rusty it is. Heavy surface rust, They are cheap - just get another one. You can try to clean it with sand paper. You have to keep the edges sharp and this is what gives the precise on-off signal.

I don't know for certain but I once looked at a late 70's shortbed and I also owned a 1980 dodge van and the ignition switch moved a little rod that went to a switch. This was on the steering column under the dash. Not sure why I added that in there... (must be tired) Basically, If I removed this rod, I could slide the switch and start the vehicle. One way to start a vehicle w/o a key, although if the steering column locks, you can't steer... (I'll keep quiet now)

If you try and turn the ignition, shake the gear selector and see if by chance you get the engine to turn over. If you aren't getting headlights, you won't get the engine to turn over with the ignition. Kind of have to solve one issue at a time or at least understand it's effects on the whole system. Granted, if there are no headlights in the truck, this statement is null & void ;o) Older trucks with rusty cab mounts tend to get the shifter linkages out of whack and won't have the transmission solidly in te selected gear. Thus, giving a mis-reading to the switch. That is where a cable shifter comes in very nice as you don't have to worry about cab mounts, flexing of frame and body parts.

Let us know
pieter

[Hines76]

i found that the nuetral safety switch wasnt even hooked up. the original switch was hanging underneath the truck by the wires and one of the outside prongs was broke. above each prong was a letter, B N B, so i guess the two outside prongs are for the back up lights. anyway, there was another switch in the trans but the plug wouldnt stay on it and the switch didnt look the same so i'll have to get a new switch. a couple plugs on the firewall looked a little green so i'll try to clean those.
im workin on getting the relutor ring clean and i still need to make sure the rotor is at #1. the ecu that was on the truck looks newer (the box was clean and the contacts were really clean, etc.) but i will still switch that and the ballast resistor from my w100 just to be safe. i had some other stuff goin on last night and didnt get around to workin on my truck. i have a lot to check so i will get back to you asap. again thanks for all the help.

[712edf]

i found that the nuetral safety switch wasnt even hooked up. the original switch was hanging underneath the truck by the wires and one of the outside prongs was broke. above each prong was a letter, B N B, so i guess the two outside prongs are for the back up lights. anyway, there was another switch in the trans but the plug wouldnt stay on it and the switch didnt look the same so i'll have to get a new switch. a couple plugs on the firewall looked a little green so i'll try to clean those.
im workin on getting the relutor ring clean and i still need to make sure the rotor is at #1. the ecu that was on the truck looks newer (the box was clean and the contacts were really clean, etc.) but i will still switch that and the ballast resistor from my w100 just to be safe. i had some other stuff goin on last night and didnt get around to workin on my truck. i have a lot to check so i will get back to you asap. again thanks for all the help.

Yeah if it comes unhooked the starter won't go.

[Hines76]

the truck is running! i cleaned the 4 connections on the firewall, the reluctor ring, and checked the timing. i left the ballast resistor and ecu that came with the truck on because they looked fairly new and just left the neutral safety switch wires unconnected. the key wont turn it over but it will shut the truck off. still no headlights though.

[pieter]

Great news!!

You got it running so that is a step in the right direction. Kudo points in that is shuts off with the key as well. Sometimes, those luxuries are just not required :o)

Check that big connection at the firewall. Your headlight switch could be bad as well.

Pieter

[Hines76]

im still tryin to get the headlights working. i have put 5 new u joints in the driveshafts and my friend and i are gonna throw some olive drab on it. im also making bumpers for it out of 1/4 in. wall 2x4 tubing and she'll be ready to go. this truck is gonna be my driver while the w100 gets torn down for a resto and 3/4 ton conversion. i will probably be asking lots of questions when that project starts. anyway, thanks again for all the help.