1952 b3pw

[gunner]

Good evening Men, I need to change the gear ratio in my PW, does anyone have the part# for a ring and pinion set? Also what ratio are you Men using? Have already went to the 315-75R16 tires. Thanks for any help or opinions..Gunner

[gunner]

I guess I should have ask what kind are they? They appear to be factory, Thru research seems the 4.89 gear is the way to go, Could the front and rears be 8-3/4, dana, spicer? I would think this would be a very easy question for all the experienced hands on this site?...Gunner

[maineSS]

Richmond Gear does a run now and again of 4.89:1's- you can get them from VPW, Charles Talbert of M Series Rebuild, or Vintage Vehicles. The 230 flathead will need a lot more downshifting on hills unless you start adding headers and dual carbs to get back some of the 30+ Hp that was left on the table...

[W_A_Watson_II]

Gunner,

The only two options for the Flat Fender Power Wagons are the 4.89's & 5.83's.

If you need something else it will require an axle swap, and then if you are still using the stock engine, you still won't be happy unless you are looking for lower speed gears.

Merry Christmas,
Will

[Doc Dave]

Gunner,
THere is one other option, which I and several people have gone to.
Keep the 5.83's and add a Denman overdrive unit. That way you now basically have 5 forward gears that will get you to 55 mph, but you will still have the power in the lower gears.
Only problem would be if you went off road a lot, the Denman reduces the ground clearance a bit.
Also I don't believe it is made for high torque rock crawling.
Do a search on this forum as well as Joe's if you are interested. It is a British Laycock overdrive that Dennis Gronan reworked with PW yokes and brackets to mount it between the frame rails.
In my case I kept my original drive shaft, and if I wanted to go in rough off road situations I could drop out the overdrive in an hour or two and reinstall the stock driveshaft.

[farboat]

I 've also considered an overdrive for my WC-52 w/ 5:83 gears, but would'nt an overdrive result in excessive driveshaft speeds? I'm talking about approx. 55 MPH or so.

Greg

[Doc Dave]

Greg,
My PW is in the final stages of restoration. I have driven it on my farm but not on the road. So I cannot give a firsthand account in response of your question.
But, there are several people like Tom P, who posts here and on Joe's forum who have the Denman unit. Tom has driven his PW on the highway for several years with no problems that I know of. There are other folks too who could comment. Again, a search would turn up their remarks. In general they are very satisfied, and I don't recall any comments about excessive driveshaft speed problems . Speaking of that, I had my driveshafts balanced during the rebuild process. IT was not expensive and I figured it would only help matters.
A caveat about the Denman. You CAN NOT leave it on and put the tranny in reverse. It apparently breaks it internally. To prevent this, a few have rigged a paddle switch that hangs below the truck a bit with a small plastic "sail" to catch the wind and thus energize the O.D. when you are moving forward. When stopped the switch goes back to he detent position (off). I am not sure if I will do that or not.

[maineSS]

With an overdrive, you will definitely need more torque in the 1500-2000 RPM range than the stock 230 puts out- max torque is about 1300 RPM with the OEM cam. The advantage is not getting into the high fuel consumption range above 2000 rpm. When the 230 is equipped with a vintage dual carb manifold and a freeflow exhaust, and around 8:1 compression, it makes about 130-140 HP. I'm going to try the 1958 head, triple carbs, and Langdon's cast exhaust. The CVK 40 carbs used on Harley Davidsons are looking pretty good- they have an accel pump, and were used on 4 cycle twins with very similar cu in displacement- 74 and 80 vs the 72 cu in of the 230 cylinders. They also feature the very linear intake airspeed of the Constant Vacuum design, like an SU carb. David Vizard fitted 3 2" SU's to an early Land Cruiser engine that has very similar bore/stroke and RPM range to the 230. It idled at 450 rpm, pulled like a locomotive, and got an extra 35 HP up top. The truck was was used for desert rockcrawling, and did very well.

[gunner]

Thanks for the help Men, I have been talking to Mr. Talbert, thus I have a boat load of parts headed my way.
Plent of good pointers on the rebuild of the 230 six.
Will be looking for a 2bbl intake and a header if anyone knows where one might be. I am a electrical/computer idiot and cant figure out how to use the search option. Sorry for all the questions, as I am sure they have been asked a million times before.

Thanks, Gunner

[maineSS]

There are no 2bbl intakes available for the 230/251's- which is a shame, because the Holley/Webber progressive 2bbl carb works really well on these engines. You have to use an adapter, which I've never liked. Tom Langdon at Langdon's Stovebolt (on the Web), sells these carbs, and the cast iron headers. You can also go the Vintage route and use two B&B's jetted down on a two-carb intake, such as the Offenhauser. George Asche in Venus, PA is about the most experienced guy around with multicarb B&B's- been at it for 60+ years.

[gunner]

Good evening Men, I am rebuilding the 230, and milling the head 0.80 to up comp. a bit, will be combining HEI ignition and a 12V electrical system. Also going w/ a Langdon header and dual 2V carbs w/ a offy intake. The rebuild kit comes w/a new cam and lifters. Also going w/ the 4.89 gear and 1100-16 michelin radials. Question is, does anyone recomend a specific grind on the cam for a bit more power, or should it be left alone. will be mostly off road use ie: hunting, light off roading, knocking around the farm. But will from time to time run to town (55MPH) speed limit. Thanks in advance for any help or opinions..Gunner

[maineSS]

If your new cam is the late stock grind, I would leave it alone- check out my simulation results at "230 cam specs" on the Civilian 1-ton part of the site. The cam simulation done by Roadrunner Engineering is now in the mail, so I'll have an update in a few days. He did do a sim with 8:1 CR, dual carbs and split exhaust, so this will likely help you. Keep looking for a 1958-59 8:1 head- these flow better than a planed stocker- cutting down the head also cuts flow. 4:89's AND big tires will likely still be too much, I'd try one first- especially if you have any hills around. There have been mixed reviews on HEI and Mopar flatheads, I'd think about a stock distributor and MSD 6 after some of the things I've heard. Flatheads don't like the advance found in modern OHV distributors, you can have some serious backfire damage.

[gunner]

Thanks maineSS, I ask the builder about cam, He stated it was a 230 OEM late grind, Thanks for the tip on ignition as well, I believe I was wrong on an earlier post. My stock distributor is being converted to electronic and 12V. I hope I can maintain at least 55 MPH highway speeds..

Gunner

[maineSS]

There's some interesting info in a couple of Ol Skool Rodz threads- Distributor Spring Rate- http://olskoolrodz.com/forum/showthr...t=230+flathead -go to posts #9, 11 by Hudsonater, post #29 by C9x, and post# 37 by Don Coatney. Also HEI, Pertronix, or Points- http://olskoolrodz.com/forum/showthr...t=48763&page=4 -post #32 by Hudsonater. The PW didn't have a vacuum advance distributor, even though it is an advantage for most driving. If you try to adapt one, be aware of the differences in advances both in flathead engine distributors and any HEI conversion. I have talked with Tom Langdon about his unit (a V6 HEI), and he says the people who ran into trouble didn't understand distributors, but when you read Hudsonater's post #11, it makes you wonder a bit- He's had years of experience with 230 mods in tractor pulling competition. If you go with a points distributor, you're better off using an electronic ignition to handle the ignition current, while the points are used as a timer(Hudsonater's post #32 on condensor reliability makes very interesting reading).Pertronix-type units are OK if you want OEM looks and performance, but they won't allow you to open your plug gap much- they can't handle the amps. It takes power electronics and a good size heat sink to run the required current, and it's amps that matter- NOT voltage- 20 Kv is plenty to jump plug gaps. If you use MSD, be aware it can fool certain "dial back" timing lights (see post #29 by C9x).

As far as 55 mph, when you get above 2000 rpm, you will note a considerable increase in fuel consumption, especially with bias-ply tires and the B&B carb. Radial tires and better carburetion should help, but you want your peak road speed to coincide with peak torque for best fuel economy and engine life.

[maineSS]

Gunner-

Check out the 230/251 cam specs post on the 1-ton forum for twin carb sim specs