Transfer case won't power front prop shaft

[frs09]

I have a 1946 WDX. For whatever reason, the t-case shift levers move well, but I've realized that there is no power going to the front axle.

I messed around a bit with the linkage to see if perhaps that was the problem (not moving far enough, etc.) and that didn't seem to make a difference (for the better or the worse). Importantly, no obvious noise, etc. from the transfer case so the truck is drivable in 2wd without any apparent problems at all.

Should I just drop the T-case out and go ahead and follow the parts and service manuals and go through it? I have searched the archived posts here and on the dodgepowerwagon forum and haven't seen this problem really mentioned...I have seen issues with T-case slipping out of 4 wheel, etc. and that seems similar (though mine doesn't "slip" out...never seems to go in).

Also, when thinking it is shifted into 4wd, and moving the 2nd lever into low I don't appreciate any difference in the performance...think there is a problem there too.

Again, no noises and any help before someone who has only changed the seals in a Transfer case previously dives into actually taking one apart would be great.

All advice appreciated. Thanks, Forest

[Gordon Maney]

I suppose there is a fair chance you will end up removing the transfer case from the truck and opening it up, but I don't think my first move would be to remove it from the truck.

Let's do some things you would have to do in order to remove it. Disconnect the front and rear drive shafts from it. Put the transmission in neutral.

Try rotating the front and rear drive shaft yokes; see what they do. Operate the transfer case levers and see what effect that has on the rotation of the yokes. See if you get any noises from it as you turn yokes.

You don't say if this truck has operated correctly in the time you have owned it. That is an important part of this discussion.

A next thing I would do is disconnect the transfer case shift levers from the shift rods. They won't be easy to move by hand, with no levers connected, but see if they move through an entire range of motion, each end of which is defined by a detent.

A detent is a positive stop that results from a spring loaded ball bearing being pressed into a machined recess in the shift rod. If you can't get a positive stop at each end of the travel, then either you are not getting full range of motion, or something is wrong inside. ....and that could be as simple as a detent ball being stuck or a spring broken. But, it warrants exploration.

Let's see what all you learn doing these things.

Has this operated correctly before during your ownership of the truck?

[frs09]

Here is what I've done so far

Thanks for the information...here is some more information. I bought the truck a couple of years ago, at the time it had traditional/from the factory front hubs, so the front propeller shaft turned when it moved regardless of transfer case shift lever position. I didn't do any driving that would have really tested the function of the transfer case (4x4) function either.

I did go through all the running gear, including dropping the transfer case and opening it up to just take a look. I know I could have done something there (as in bad), however I peeked in, everything looked nice, and limited my time (and tinkering) to simply replacing the input and output "yokes" with new gaskets, etc.

Now I'm thinking that I should have actually just spent 2 days and really have gone through it; however I was pressed for time as I was preparing to leave for Afghanistan at the time. With regards to the rest of the truck, when I was out of the country I had the engine tanked, bored and rebuilt, body removed, etc.....now it is back together with the new selectro lockouts on the front axle.

I guess that will never really offroad this truck (lots of time and $ into restoring it to 1946 stature) and might never have noticed that the T-case was an issue...except I like to "explore" things and had my wife get out on the side of the road, take my 30 second lesson on what the front drive shaft was and where it was, then put it into 4 wheel and had her watch the shaft....no movement. I then locked the hubs, put the t-case back into 2 wheel drive and sure enough the drive shaft rotates (at least I didn't screw up the hubs!).

I actually had done some of what you recommended....rear drive shaft won't turn by hand and I'm not going to lay under that thing while anyone I knows attempts to move the truck! The front.....okay, got me....I'm going to have to crawl under there and see if it moves with the front hubs disengaged and the truck in 2 wheel mode (transfer case)...guessing it should, guessing given my situation it will still move with the transfer case lever in 4 wheel drive mode.

I did look at the linkage and played with that a bit, I removed the pin that holds the linkage to the shift rods as you mentioned in your reply. I did some adjustment of the linkage to make sure I was fully moving the shift rod out of the Transfer case and also fully depressing it into the case....I'm not sure of the stop point with regards to the depression, at both extremes the shift rod stayed put when I moved the linkage off the rod....guessing then that I have hit the detents at both extremes. Honestly, I thought that the linkage might have been maladjusted off hand so I had done this manuever before my original post...hmm...

I will see if I can rotate the front drive shaft with the transfer case handle in 2 and 4 wheel positions tomorrow night with the front hubs disengaged.

Any ideas...or "if this, then that" advice?

Of course my wife is silently irritated about this.....she has called the truck the other woman in the past and from her perspective now the other woman has a "problem" that doesn't interfer with me driving the truck around to get BBQ on the weekends, etc. so I'm getting cold looks coming out of the garage covered with grease! Kind of makes me laugh!

[Charles Talbert]

If the shift shafts are being held into position by the detents Gordon mentioned, you will distinctly know it as they will not move out of the detented position without some noticeable effort being applied, you will not mistake that.

If you don't feel the 2 detent positions as the shaft moves from one extreme to the other, you have a definite detent ball and spring issue, and possibly severely worn shaft grooves. If you do feel the detented positions, yet no pulling action is going on, the next most likely issue is the shift fork set screw has come loose allowing the fork to slide on the shaft freely. The next possible step would be the shift fork has broken. Anything worse will mean some stripped or busted gears.

Detent balls and springs can be accessed from outside, anything more serious means a tear down. If you get to the point of realizing tear down is necessary, I would pull it down completely for a thorough cleaning and inspection. Now is the time to build it back to new specs using all new bearings, seals, and whatever else it takes. At this point, it is too much work to take a short cut in doing it right the first time.

[Gordon Maney]

In considering what all could be wrong, it seems there are actually several things wrong. frs09, you indicate an inability to drive the front axle and also no change when you operate your range lever.

For the moment, we need to assume no major breakage internally, as you are not getting bad noises, although that could be a mistaken assumption.

We also assume other good things internally, since you indicate you can drive it in two wheel drive.

If you can drive it in two wheel drive, you are able to lock the rear shaft on the left side to either the forward or rearward gear on that side, allowing the idler gear assembly to be driven which then drives the rear output shaft on the right side of the transfer case. That is your success.

Sitting where Charles and I sit, we don't know if you are in high or low range for sure, though we likely suspect you are in high range, because if you were in low, you would think the truck was going way to slow.

On to your most notice symptom. No front drive. To drive the front driveshaft you need to lock the forward output shaft to the rear output shaft that includes an integral gear. Apparently you are not able to implement that lock with the clutch that is operated with the shift lever.

Why? Perhaps insufficient travel, or as Charles says, a loose shift fork set screw, which allows the shaft to move but the fork does not. So the clutch does not move. Also, the clutch could be broken or as Charles says, the fork could be broken.

I can imagine that setscrew being loose, but I struggle to imagine both sides having loose setscrews. Because, remember, we believe you are stuck in one range on the left side of the case. The same possibilities apply. Loose set screw, broken clutch, or broken fork.

The set screws have square heads and are drilled for safety wire, the purpose of which is to prevent the screws from turning and allowing the forks to float on the shift shafts. You say you had it open, did you remove the lock wires?

Either we have two loose screws, or several damaged clutches, or it really is shifting between two ranges. I am uncertain.

You can’t examine the setscrews without taking it apart. I think you should disconnect all the driveshafts so you can rotate all yokes by hand to get some things verified before you pull it out. But, it seems likely that will be your next move. Don’t take it out, however, until you know you need to, as it is a lot of work.

Drain some lubricant out of it to see if you get a bunch of chips. That may tell us that parts are broken. I am uncertain as to what to guess because I struggle to imagine two shift fork screws loose, and if the fork was floating on the left side [parking brake drum side] I think it would likely pop out of gear, into an effective neutral, and you would not be able to drive it in two wheel drive.

[frs09]

Pretty sure detent positions are fine

First off and before I forget, thanks for all the information and assistance.

I'm pretty sure the detents are good with respect to the 2 - 4 wheel shifting, as shaft rod for that maneuver moves to a depressed and also extended position and doesn't want to move by hand from either position (have to put the linkage back on to do it and then it is a nice move that feels like appropriate ?5 - ?10 pounds of pressure on control handlen in cab.)

A good question was raised....what if I'm stuck in low range.....I never would have thought that and think it is unlikely. The truck has the 5.83 gears and on the local roads likes to travel at about 30 - 35 in 4th gear with 40 mph being about the upper limit of what I feel comfortable with. I've had plenty of newer dodge 4x4s and that low range is pretty unforgettable, but I could be wrong I suppose. My guess is that in low range that truck would really be screaming at 15 mph. Any reference would be great.

I looked in the case when I had it out, didn't mess with anything let alone attempt to remove, adjust or snip any wires, etc. Again, how many good intentions have unintended/unobserved bad outcomes!? I'm thinking that I need to just drop the thing out. I'm not worried about that, been there and done that....just hate how heavy the thing is! If I am going to do this, where would the best place to get a gasket/bearing kit be? I think I bought one once before (when I did my look see) from DC trucks on ebay, better price than VPW if I recall...however, don't remember ever seeing the forks for sale or some of the other parts that have been mentioned in the posts. If I do take this out, which I'm now planning on, I'd like to have all the parts for a complete job as Mr. Talbert suggested; or would like to get it to someone who really knows what they are doing.

Hmmmm....thanks again for the advice, kind of a perplexing situation and one that I'm glad I found out about in my garage while I was simply messing around rather than once I got stuck....so happy I put lockouts up front, makes me wonder how someone would know if they are truly engaging (until it was too late) without lockout front hubs.

Forest

[Gordon Maney]

First off and before I forget, thanks for all the information and assistance.

I'm pretty sure the detents are good with respect to the 2 - 4 wheel shifting, as shaft rod for that maneuver moves to a depressed and also extended position and doesn't want to move by hand from either position (have to put the linkage back on to do it and then it is a nice move that feels like appropriate ?5 - ?10 pounds of pressure on control handlen in cab.)

A good question was raised....what if I'm stuck in low range.....I never would have thought that and think it is unlikely. The truck has the 5.83 gears and on the local roads likes to travel at about 30 - 35 in 4th gear with 40 mph being about the upper limit of what I feel comfortable with. I've had plenty of newer dodge 4x4s and that low range is pretty unforgettable, but I could be wrong I suppose. My guess is that in low range that truck would really be screaming at 15 mph. Any reference would be great.

I looked in the case when I had it out, didn't mess with anything let alone attempt to remove, adjust or snip any wires, etc. Again, how many good intentions have unintended/unobserved bad outcomes!? I'm thinking that I need to just drop the thing out. I'm not worried about that, been there and done that....just hate how heavy the thing is! If I am going to do this, where would the best place to get a gasket/bearing kit be? I think I bought one once before (when I did my look see) from DC trucks on ebay, better price than VPW if I recall...however, don't remember ever seeing the forks for sale or some of the other parts that have been mentioned in the posts. If I do take this out, which I'm now planning on, I'd like to have all the parts for a complete job as Mr. Talbert suggested; or would like to get it to someone who really knows what they are doing.

Hmmmm....thanks again for the advice, kind of a perplexing situation and one that I'm glad I found out about in my garage while I was simply messing around rather than once I got stuck....so happy I put lockouts up front, makes me wonder how someone would know if they are truly engaging (until it was too late) without lockout front hubs.

Forest

I am sure Vintage Power Wagons would have everything you might possibly need.

Please keep us posted regarding what you learn.

[Charles Talbert]

We offer component rebuild service if you need help with it, will return it to you ready to install with a warranty.

[Gordon Maney]

There is a lengthy article appearing in the April 2010 issue of Power Wagon Advertiser on transfer case operation and diagnosis.

This is applicable to transfer cases used in 1-ton Power Wagon models WDX to WM300, M37 & M43 and variants, and WWII Dodge 1-1/2 ton 6X6.

Watch for it.... and if you don't subscribe, now is time!

If you are just subscribing and want to get that issue, let me know and your subscription will start with that issue mailed first class.

[frs09]

Figured it out!!

Thanks for all the help, advice and encouragement. Actually got my copy of this months advertiser in the mail and recognized the first article! That was really cool and my 82 year old father really thought it was neat that the power wagon community would write about a problem "we" were dealing with in such a direct manner. I think he kind of got the "15 minutes of fame" excitement. Thanks again.

Well, here is what I found: The shifter fork that works to move the gear back and forward (into and out of 4x4) was not positioned properly. I'm not sure how to describe this technically, but there is a groove into which the fork fits....at some point in time the t-case must have been opened and when put back together th fork was not positioned into this groove, instead it was positioned fully behind the gear - the gear could never be moved back and into the larger gear to engage the front drive shaft. I don't know how this never manifested as a noise or other problem, luck of basic engineering I assume, if the gear had instead been placed behind the fork, instead of in front (if one is working via the front propellor shaft entrace) I'm sure it would have caused all kind of havoc (if that configuration is even imaginable). So....simple fix!!

I'm looking at the other (hi-lo) side now and everything appears okay, of course, now it is apart :-( My experimentation of attempting to go into "low" was just in the garage, so I might have played "chicken little" in stating that I thought there was a problem there also.

Detents hold, gears look good, just have to get everything bolted back together and sealed well. Actually have a decent amount of satisfaction from the whole process. I found that an ATV jack I purchased from Sears was very helpful in lowering the case out of the truck....hopefully will be as helpful putting it back in!!!

Of course, I'll have to let you all know if this all works when I put it back in!!

Here are some links to my truck if you are curious:

http://imageevent.com/virginiapowerw...odgepowerwagon

I got the truck from Indiana in the summer of 2007 after my father had undergone emergent heart surgery (valve and 4 vessel bypass). We had always admired the trucks and he knew their predecessors in WWII and Korea in the form of the weapons carriers. So the truck was father and son project that got completed by our hands, timed around a 3rd deployment to the wonderful middle east (that time Afghanistan) and with the additional help of a local engine shop and body restoration shop. Of course, now Dad's health is beginning to fail again....but we love to go get a sandwich in the truck and all the "love letters" (unfortunately none likely from the hand of a female) we find under the wiper blades!

Thanks again and I'm really glad we found this community.

[Gordon Maney]

Neat!

Go have more sandwiches....

[PWFFnut]

Easy way to lower t case

First off and before I forget, thanks for all the information and assistance.

I'm pretty sure the detents are good with respect to the 2 - 4 wheel shifting, as shaft rod for that maneuver moves to a depressed and also extended position and doesn't want to move by hand from either position (have to put the linkage back on to do it and then it is a nice move that feels like appropriate ?5 - ?10 pounds of pressure on control handlen in cab.)

A good question was raised....what if I'm stuck in low range.....I never would have thought that and think it is unlikely. The truck has the 5.83 gears and on the local roads likes to travel at about 30 - 35 in 4th gear with 40 mph being about the upper limit of what I feel comfortable with. I've had plenty of newer dodge 4x4s and that low range is pretty unforgettable, but I could be wrong I suppose. My guess is that in low range that truck would really be screaming at 15 mph. Any reference would be great.

I looked in the case when I had it out, didn't mess with anything let alone attempt to remove, adjust or snip any wires, etc. Again, how many good intentions have unintended/unobserved bad outcomes!? I'm thinking that I need to just drop the thing out. I'm not worried about that, been there and done that....just hate how heavy the thing is! If I am going to do this, where would the best place to get a gasket/bearing kit be? I think I bought one once before (when I did my look see) from DC trucks on ebay, better price than VPW if I recall...however, don't remember ever seeing the forks for sale or some of the other parts that have been mentioned in the posts. If I do take this out, which I'm now planning on, I'd like to have all the parts for a complete job as Mr. Talbert suggested; or would like to get it to someone who really knows what they are doing.

Hmmmm....thanks again for the advice, kind of a perplexing situation and one that I'm glad I found out about in my garage while I was simply messing around rather than once I got stuck....so happy I put lockouts up front, makes me wonder how someone would know if they are truly engaging (until it was too late) without lockout front hubs.

Forest

An easy way to remove a t case is to get a long 2"x12" plank prop up both ends with wood blocks until it is close to the t case place blocks of wood under the t case remove blots from t case remove blocks from under plank until it is on the ground then slide along plank so you can pick it up with an engine hoist .