Gasoline additives & Injector cleaners

[712edf]

I have noticed that those pricely carb cleaners, injector cleaners, & gas additives (not octane boosters but water/crud removers....ie Gum-out, Berryman, STP, etc) are essentially overpriced small packages of kerosene/diesel or those funky paint thinners that I use at work for painting (xylene, toluene,etc).....Wouldn't I be wiser to just poor a pint of something from work in the tank as opposed to buying the off the shelf stuff?

What chemicals serve what purpose as to what you pour into a gasoline tank? Which ones remove water? Which ones clean the carb or injectors?

This may have been discussed here in the past, if so could someone provide a link to the appropriate thread.

Its funny how a FI engine in a nearly new vehicle costing thousands of dollars will not run as smooth as an $800 70's model 318 truck.

Ethanol sucks by the way!

The person who came up with the "check engine/service engine soon" warning light ought to have their eyes gouged out with hot iron pokers. Ok maybe that's overboard, but this is what happens when the auto-makers try to eliminate all user serviceable aspects of motor vehicle maintenance in favor of dealer servicing for increased opportunity to rape customers.

Thanks
Bucky

[Charles Talbert]

Electronically controlled engines

All the electronic stuff incorporated into engines these days can be and in many cases is used to force the customer to go to a service provider who has the correct diagnostic equipment, to check out the issue. Many times this is a dealer service facility. This can be costly in both time and $$$.

BUT, these systems can actually be a time and $$$ saver, if you outsmart them and add a few features into their technology. We just finished an installation of an all electronic Cummins diesel. It has a plug on the engine harness to accept a connection from a Cummins service tech's lap top for diagnostic purposes. We included a 9-pin plug connector on the dash in our wiring harness so an ordinary code reader can be esily used, most service providers have one. I went one step further after scoping out the electrical sytem a little deeper. We built our own engine wiring harness to the ECM box mounted on the engine. I discovered that by simply adding a toggle switch on the dash and pulling only 2 extra wires, we could install an on board diagnostic system. How does it work? Turn on the ignition switch, flip the toggle switch to on, simply look at the 3 lamp panel that has a stop engine light, a warning light, and a wait-to-start light. If all is well with the Cummins, you will get all lights on, no flashing. If there is an engine issue, the lights will flash out a number sequence that can be converted using a Cummins fault code chart. The lights will tell you what component has a fault, the chart will tell you the cause and corrective action needed, all within a couple of minutes. If the check engine lights come on, a quick check for faults reveals what has happened and how to correct it. You don't even have to leave the driver's seat. You may have to go to the dealer for parts or service in some cases, but you never have to pay them for diagnostic time. The all electronic Cummins we were forced to use in our repowers because of new EPA regulations has me wondering why we didn't go to that years ago. Actually once you figure all this out, it is really quite simple. All electronics aren't bad news as many think they are, IF you will simply put forth the effort to figure out what makes it tick.

I showed this feature to our Cummins rep (a 30 year Cummins employee) that calls on us by-weekly the other day, told him how it worked. His reply was "really, I never have seen that before."

[712edf]

Which means more $$ for diagnostic equipment (not necessarily bad if you don't have a variety of set-ups to keep in tune). I am not saying that electronically control rigs are all evil. Its just that for the outrageous price that a newer vehicle costs, you'd expect it to last longer before stuff starts going haywire.

I don't want to sink money into diagnostic tools that are going to be obsolete should I get rid of my current vehicle for something newer/different. How many different varieties of "scanners" have come about in the last 25 yrs?

Thank you Charles,

Any input on the additive question?

Bucky

[Charles Talbert]

Which means more $$ for diagnostic equipment (not necessarily bad if you don't have a variety of set-ups to keep in tune). I am not saying that electronically control rigs are all evil. Its just that for the outrageous price that a newer vehicle costs, you'd expect it to last longer before stuff starts going haywire.

I don't want to sink money into diagnostic tools that are going to be obsolete should I get rid of my current vehicle for something newer/different. How many different varieties of "scanners" have come about in the last 25 yrs?

Thank you Charles,

Any input on the additive question?

Bucky

Not sinking $$ into diagnosics, either in equipment of your own or paying to have it done at a dealers facility was the whole point I attempted to share. What we did never goes obsolete, cost under $10 in parts to incorporate into the Cummins system, and stays with the vehicle forever so all owners reap the benefits and enjoy the convenience of onboard diagnostics. An "SPST" type toggle switch and a few feet of 20 gage wire is all it takes to make it happen. I just wired it right into the plug at the ECM connector. It doesn't get any more cost effective than this that I know of.

[712edf]

Let me give a little backdrop. The vehicle in question is a 2004 Chevy Astro with the 4.3? V-6, 133,000 miles. A few months back I filled up at an out-of-town conveniece store (in my parents hometown). Before long the service engine light came on. Once I burned most of that tank up & refueled elsewhere the light would go back out. This happened a couple of times before my dad tipped me off that the same thing would happen to his vehicles if he got gas at that particular store. So I wouldn't get gas there anymore on my trips to the area. But then the light started coming on occasionally anyways no matter where I fueled up. Mileage started dropping & the engine began running a little rougher. Since I normally drive another vehicle & this one is a "back-up" I just tolerated it, figuring I got some more crummy gas, but this time locally. Well the condition only worsened. I finally replaced the fuel filter. Virtually no improvement. Since I hate working on this unaccessible motor I took it to a decent mechanic I know. He replaced the spark plugs (said I needed those $5 A/C Delco Platinums instead of the normal Champions I had put in a couple of yrs back), replaced the plug wires, distributor cap/rotor & possibly something else ignition related.

When I got the vehicle back, it ran great, mileage was back up above what it was when I bought the van in 2008 & no service engine light.....Until about the 3rd or 4th tank of gas later. I don't use any particular gas station exclusively. I would if I found a good one. I believe my issue is fuel related. I tried a can of Sea Foam first. Next I have used a can of Berryman. The SE light is almost always on or blinking & the vehicle is running rougher & worse than ever before. Are these cleaners ungunking something then clogging back up downstream?

The mechanic is going to look at it again, to check & see if anything he did has failed, plus to see if its something new. Dirty fuel tank, clogged convertor, sensor, etc.... I just don't like not being to figure this all out my self. I don't intend on keeping this vehicle much longer anyways, it was an emergency buy for me at the time.

Charles are you saying that I am a toggle switch/roll of wire away from freedom?

Thanks

Bucky

[Charles Talbert]

Let me give a little backdrop. The vehicle in question is a 2004 Chevy Astro with the 4.3? V-6, 133,000 miles. A few months back I filled up at an out-of-town conveniece store (in my parents hometown). Before long the service engine light came on. Once I burned most of that tank up & refueled elsewhere the light would go back out. This happened a couple of times before my dad tipped me off that the same thing would happen to his vehicles if he got gas at that particular store. So I wouldn't get gas there anymore on my trips to the area. But then the light started coming on occasionally anyways no matter where I fueled up. Mileage started dropping & the engine began running a little rougher. Since I normally drive another vehicle & this one is a "back-up" I just tolerated it, figuring I got some more crummy gas, but this time locally. Well the condition only worsened. I finally replaced the fuel filter. Virtually no improvement. Since I hate working on this unaccessible motor I took it to a decent mechanic I know. He replaced the spark plugs (said I needed those $5 A/C Delco Platinums instead of the normal Champions I had put in a couple of yrs back), replaced the plug wires, distributor cap/rotor & possibly something else ignition related.

When I got the vehicle back, it ran great, mileage was back up above what it was when I bought the van in 2008 & no service engine light.....Until about the 3rd or 4th tank of gas later. I don't use any particular gas station exclusively. I would if I found a good one. I believe my issue is fuel related. I tried a can of Sea Foam first. Next I have used a can of Berryman. The SE light is almost always on or blinking & the vehicle is running rougher & worse than ever before. Are these cleaners ungunking something then clogging back up downstream?

The mechanic is going to look at it again, to check & see if anything he did has failed, plus to see if its something new. Dirty fuel tank, clogged convertor, sensor, etc.... I just don't like not being to figure this all out my self. I don't intend on keeping this vehicle much longer anyways, it was an emergency buy for me at the time.

Charles are you saying that I am a toggle switch/roll of wire away from freedom?

Thanks

Bucky

I'm not saying that at all concerning your Chevy. Truth here is I know nothing about the electronics used on your Chevy. If I studied the system, I could likely shed more light, but that's another story.

I was telling what we did with the Cummins, the same thing or similar might could be done with your Chevy, but I don't have that answer for you concerning your vehicle. Study up on your system and see what makes it tick is the best advice I have to offer. If we worked on that type of vehicle, I would learn more.

[712edf]

I'm not saying that at all concerning your Chevy. Truth here is I know nothing about the electronics used on your Chevy. If I studied the system, I could likely shed more light, but that's another story.

I was telling what we did with the Cummins, the same thing or similar might could be done with your Chevy, but I don't have that answer for you concerning your vehicle. Study up on your system and see what makes it tick is the best advice I have to offer. If we worked on that type of vehicle, I would learn more.

Thanks Charles. I bought this vehicle approximately 2 yrs ago for $4400. It was a company vehicle that a saleman drove for about 110k over a 4 yr period. That company replaces their salesman's vehicle about every 4 yrs or 25k. I felt comfortable buying it because I knew its entire history & I got it for quite a bit less than what they were asking & what it was shown to be worth at the time. A pocket full of cash possesses great leverage....The reason I was in the market for a vehicle anyways was that someone failed to yield right-of-way, wrecking my previous truck...

It has been a good (not great) vehicle, but I am not nor ever will be a GM person. I am a Mopar person. More specifically a RWD or 4WD carbureted V8 Mopar person. That's what I know best. That's what I will return to. While its nice to have a vehicle that the radio stays on when you turn the key off, its even better to have one that the I can raise the hood & actually accomplish something w/o blowing a wad of money.

I assume you are around Cummins motors alot (among others). It makes perfect sense to know every thing about a piece of machinery inside & out if you must deal with that machinery on a constant basis. I am the same way about Graco airless paint sprayers. I use them daily, therefore I work on them daily.

Bucky