Plating MC/Wheel Cyl bores?

[maineSS]

I'm presently swapping out Wheel Cylinders due to leakage caused by a small amount of rust in the bottom of the bores. I discussed the possibility of sleeving the cylinders with my machinist, and he brought up the possibilty of honing them out and bringing them back into spec via chrome or nickel plating. There's a plating shop in the next town, so I'll see if they want to take it on.

This might be a good save for MC's if it works out, because they have various small openings into the cylinder that would make sleeving quite challenging. Most people's brake system leaks result from corrosion from water sitting in the bores of the MC/WC's rather than wear, so this might save general aggravation.

On a related note, I found that the copper washers for the banjo fitting were not available locally, and they were seeping when I reused them. I recalled that heating copper and quenching it anneals (softens) it, so I suspended the washers on a length of wire with a hook, heated them with a propane torch, and dunked them in a bowl of water. Presto- no more seeps! I've ordered new ones- they don't seem to come with wheel cylinders anymore- so I'll be able to move the truck with my temporary fix.

[Joe Flo]

Plating the master cylinder may not work due to the small passages. Getting those small passages clean enough for good bonding may not occur. You could have a problem with the plating lifting and that could cause blockages or poor seating of a check valve ball bearing.

I could see it working well for wheel cylinders but keep in mind everything gets plated and threaded holes will need to be plugged or have a tap run through them. Let us know if it works out.

Joe

[Charles Talbert]

I'm presently swapping out Wheel Cylinders due to leakage caused by a small amount of rust in the bottom of the bores. I discussed the possibility of sleeving the cylinders with my machinist, and he brought up the possibilty of honing them out and bringing them back into spec via chrome or nickel plating. There's a plating shop in the next town, so I'll see if they want to take it on.

This might be a good save for MC's if it works out, because they have various small openings into the cylinder that would make sleeving quite challenging. Most people's brake system leaks result from corrosion from water sitting in the bores of the MC/WC's rather than wear, so this might save general aggravation.

On a related note, I found that the copper washers for the banjo fitting were not available locally, and they were seeping when I reused them. I recalled that heating copper and quenching it anneals (softens) it, so I suspended the washers on a length of wire with a hook, heated them with a propane torch, and dunked them in a bowl of water. Presto- no more seeps! I've ordered new ones- they don't seem to come with wheel cylinders anymore- so I'll be able to move the truck with my temporary fix.

The copper washers are available at CarQuest, 10 in a box. I just stocked my bin.

[Gordon Maney]

You could also simply heat the copper washers and let them cool. No quenching needed.

Sleeving with stainless or brass would be better, I think. There are companies offering that service, also.

[Charles Talbert]

You could also simply heat the copper washers and let them cool. No quenching needed.

Sleeving with stainless or brass would be better, I think. There are companies offering that service, also.

My vote is for sleeving also, plating would have lots of possible risk, brakes are not something I like to take risk and experiment with.

I don't really see the cause for the machinist not wanting to fix them, not a big deal to do; sounds as if he may not be speaking his mind completely on his reasoning, who knows.

[maineSS]

The reason for plating the MC IS the small passages- they'd be blocked off temporarily during the plating, so the bore would be the only area treated.

Lifting of the plating is certainly a concern, and one that would be raised with the platers. If there's any chance of that happening, sleeving would be the order of the day. As far as sleeving the MC, I don't see how you could insure that holes in the sleeve would align with those in the MC as you drove it in, or how you could accurately cut them after the sleeve was in place.

Non-ferrous metals are softened by quenching after heating, and hardened by slow cooling- just the opposite of steel. The washers are two different sizes, and my local Car Quest couldn't match them, NAPA said they were an obsolete PN, not available thru them. Charles, did you give them the Dodge PN's from the Parts Manual? The CQ guy just took them out back and looked in his drawer.

[Charles Talbert]

The reason for plating the MC IS the small passages- they'd be blocked off temporarily during the plating, so the bore would be the only area treated.

Lifting of the plating is certainly a concern, and one that would be raised with the platers. If there's any chance of that happening, sleeving would be the order of the day. As far as sleeving the MC, I don't see how you could insure that holes in the sleeve would align with those in the MC as you drove it in, or how you could accurately cut them after the sleeve was in place.

Non-ferrous metals are softened by quenching after heating, and hardened by slow cooling- just the opposite of steel. The washers are two different sizes, and my local Car Quest couldn't match them, NAPA said they were an obsolete PN, not available thru them. Charles, did you give them the Dodge PN's from the Parts Manual? The CQ guy just took them out back and looked in his drawer.

The washers have been gone from NAPA several years now. I gave my CarQuest rep the old NAPA #'s, he crossed them over to his #'s, had them the next morning, no problem. I've been able to source many items through CarQuest that we used to get from NAPA, and they no longer offer.

[Gordon Maney]

The reason for plating the MC IS the small passages- they'd be blocked off temporarily during the plating, so the bore would be the only area treated.

Lifting of the plating is certainly a concern, and one that would be raised with the platers. If there's any chance of that happening, sleeving would be the order of the day. As far as sleeving the MC, I don't see how you could insure that holes in the sleeve would align with those in the MC as you drove it in, or how you could accurately cut them after the sleeve was in place.

Non-ferrous metals are softened by quenching after heating, and hardened by slow cooling- just the opposite of steel. The washers are two different sizes, and my local Car Quest couldn't match them, NAPA said they were an obsolete PN, not available thru them. Charles, did you give them the Dodge PN's from the Parts Manual? The CQ guy just took them out back and looked in his drawer.

I thought the only way to harden copper was by work hardening. Hammering it.

[Charles Talbert]

Holes in the sleeve being aligned correctly after press in is a very minor issue for a top notch machinist who properly measures up everything. We are very fortunate to have a great guy that does things correctly before he starts a job. Many simply will not go to the trouble to do a job right these days, and will turn work away as a result. I don't know if this is the case with your guy, but we have had it happen numbers of times.

[Jason Mills]

The washers have been gone from NAPA several years now. I gave my CarQuest rep the old NAPA #'s, he crossed them over to his #'s, had them the next morning, no problem. I've been able to source many items through CarQuest that we used to get from NAPA, and they no longer offer.

Is CarQuest usually able to look up your needs by application? I don't have a local CarQuest, but I am willing to travel a bit if they can supply the needed parts.

[Charles Talbert]

Is CarQuest usually able to look up your needs by application? I don't have a local CarQuest, but I am willing to travel a bit if they can supply the needed parts.

We never buy anything by application, we have part #'s. We have bunches of CarQuest Catalogs, and their corp headquarters is right here near us. I might can help if I knew what it is you need.

[maineSS]

My machinist was initially concerned with the wall thickness of the sleeves- initial measurements indicated that they would be so thin that they'd distort under tool pressure. However, remeasurement showed a math error, so that ceased to be a problem for the wheel cylinders.

The master cylinder is fairly long, and has several small holes. If the sleeve moves sideways slightly, or stops before hitting your measured bottom point- too bad, so sad- that's just how press operations go sometimes. The machinist had no problem doing it- he just wanted me to be aware of possible problems.

I talked to the plater today- he said he'd likely copper plate first, then nickel plate the wheel cylinder. The master cylinder would be require special tooling due to the length of the bore relative to dia, so it's likely not practical. I'm going to bring the parts to him later so he can advise further.

[Gordon Maney]

Google found me these:

http://www.brakecylinder.com/index.htm

http://www.applehydraulics.com/brakes.htm

http://www.resleeve.com/index.htm

http://www.whitepost.com/brake.html


My W300 has a brake master cylinder on it done by White Post a long time ago.

[Joe Flo]

As Charles pointed out, why be a guinea pig? Brakes are not worth experimenting with. When I think of plated cylinders, I immediately think of Vega engines. Gordon found quite a few websites for rebuilding. I would go that route just so I would know it was done correctly.