Sleeping Beauty Gently Weeps

[John Waak]

My freshly rebuilt (done professionally) 1954 C1-PW6-126 230 c.i. engine sits in the frame while I rebuild the oil lines, ignition etc. I notice oil weeping out from the timing case cover cranking jaw. I can't imagine it getting better with time, so ponder which course of action is best:
1. pull the jaw, speedi-sleeve it and reassemble, or
2. pull the jaw and speedi-sleeve as above, and attempt to replace the seal and gasket without taking the entire timing case cover off, or
3. pull the timing case cover and redo all the related gaskets and seals, etc.

Additionally, while the engine awaits starting, I have filled the crank case and block with 5 gallons of oil to just above the cam. Is it possible the oversupply of oil is my problem?

Obviously I would prefer to fix this without having to dismount the front of the engine from the frame. Absolutely I want to fix the leak before putting the radiator assembly in place.

Since I have no personal experience with this part of the engine, I don't know the best solution. I'd appreciate any insight.

Thanks

[Gordon Maney]

What you are terming the jaw is a nut, right? I suspect the leak is through the space where the seal lip touches the crank pulley seal surface. It is possible, but very unlikely, that the leak is between the crank and the bore of the crank pulley.

Since there is nothing in the way, remove that pulley and have a look at it.

[Severe Duty]

Oil capacity

Five gallons?

[Frank Irons]

My freshly rebuilt (done professionally) 1954 C1-PW6-126 230 c.i. engine sits in the frame while I rebuild the oil lines, ignition etc. I notice oil weeping out from the timing case cover cranking jaw. I can't imagine it getting better with time, so ponder which course of action is best:
1. pull the jaw, speedi-sleeve it and reassemble, or
2. pull the jaw and speedi-sleeve as above, and attempt to replace the seal and gasket without taking the entire timing case cover off, or
3. pull the timing case cover and redo all the related gaskets and seals, etc.

Additionally, while the engine awaits starting, I have filled the crank case and block with 5 gallons of oil to just above the cam. Is it possible the oversupply of oil is my problem?

Obviously I would prefer to fix this without having to dismount the front of the engine from the frame. Absolutely I want to fix the leak before putting the radiator assembly in place.

Since I have no personal experience with this part of the engine, I don't know the best solution. I'd appreciate any insight.

Thanks

I would guess that the overfilling of oil is your problem.

Frank

[John Waak]

Thank you. I will drop the oil level and see how that affects the weep. If I suspect continued problems I'll dig in deeper.
Appreciate your input.

[Charles Talbert]

Issues of concern

The overfill certainly not helping the cause; however there are several other issues concerning this area that you should be aware of.

These issues if they are there don't usually shine out until the engine is started though.

There is a later style oil seal (National 6636S) that has a specially designed case to eliminate leaking because of the oil spray nozzle for the timing chain. Weeping will be likely if they did not install this type. It is also a very good idea to install a redi-sleeve. The seal cannot be replaced without pulling the timing cover as the seal is pressed in from the inside. The cover is made of thin metal, and is often deformed by the mounting bolts and when removing the old seal. Special attention is required to straighten and square the bolt holes and seal bore in the cover, and the cover must have the crank pulley installed before the cover is tightened down in order to center the seal on the hub. Use USS flat washers under all cover mounting bolt heads; this will really help huge with cover deformation when bolts are torqued. Will drip every time if all these issues are not attended carefully.

[Gordon Maney]

I missed the five gallon part.....

[Blisters]

Wonder why there is 5 gallons of oil in the case? The camshaft is way too high a level.

This engine takes only about 5 to 6 quarts from dry. You definitely need to drain off almost 4 gallons of oil.

To answer the question about over-filling, yes, it is very bad to over-fill by even 1/2 quart. As the engine runs, the normal oil level is below the crankshaft including the counter-weights. Over-filled engines will have the oil churned-up and aerated (made bubbly) by the crankshaft counterweights, and this aerated oil will be pumped into the bearings where the oil film cushion between the metal rotating and stationary parts will not exist due to the air, causing the metal parts to rub and be quickly destroyed.

[Charles Talbert]

Wonder why there is 5 gallons of oil in the case? The camshaft is way too high a level.

This engine takes only about 5 to 6 quarts from dry. You definitely need to drain off almost 4 gallons of oil.

To answer the question about over-filling, yes, it is very bad to over-fill by even 1/2 quart. As the engine runs, the normal oil level is below the crankshaft including the counter-weights. Over-filled engines will have the oil churned-up and aerated (made bubbly) by the crankshaft counterweights, and this aerated oil will be pumped into the bearings where the oil film cushion between the metal rotating and stationary parts will not exist due to the air, causing the metal parts to rub and be quickly destroyed.

Well I guess none of us know John's intentions for sure; I would assume he over filled the oil to this mighty extreme just until he gets it prepared to start with the intention of draining off excess back to the correct level of 6 quarts before attempting to start it. To be sure he wouldn't attempt to start it with 5 gallons in the crankcase as to your possible suggestion above, I don't guess, nah surely not.

[Gordon Maney]

I have stored engines for long term by filling them with all the oil they would hold.

[John Waak]

Gentlemen,

I have drained the excess oil. The overfill was strictly for storage, as, unfortunately, my work schedule keeps my truck progress at a crawl. I didn't want the south Texas heat and humidity to begin corroding the engines insides.

As for the weep I have decided to trust the machinist's work until it proves itself faulty. I will place the radiator for the purpose of getting the engine started. Then if the weep reappears, it will be simple work to pull the radiator and redo the timing chain case cover seals and gaskets.

I appreciate the input. The shared wealth of knowledge found here is truly amazing. Thank you.

[Severe Duty]

5 gallons...

After a bit , I started to think that it must be to keep corrosion at bay from the finely polished and machined parts. I'd never heard of that, but I grew up and still live in an arid region where humidity is seldom more than a passing annoyance.

Taking this idea a bit further, and thinking of cosmoline [sic] on weaponry, can anyone else here share some thoughts on long-term storage of gear cases, et. al. and filling them with oil? Or other like minded care/storage ideas?

Or perhaps other thoughts on the idea of long term storage. Like, how can I keep an innertube or other rubber parts from succumbing to age and environment while awaiting installation in the two to three year future?